What is the future of Bitwig?

[j wazza]

How can you not connect the Note in to multiple transpose modules and connect them back to the note out to create a chord?

This works if you have several note outs, one per note if I remember correctly

yeah this works (connect the gate to the note outs too) but it can be done with multi-note decice anyway out of grid

if you want to feed it chords and transpose each note separately you can do it with up to 3 notes, use a poly -> mono module set to min for lowest note, one set to max, and one set to sum, then subtract the min and max notes from the sum to get the middle note, or use pizmidipolyphony to sort up to 16 notes to different midi channels

[JHernandez]

That a cool story and all, and maybe you have info I don't, its possible, but there's like 20 (or something, usually the same people) of us here that post regularly.

I see 8.5k members on reddit but I don't see very many of those 8.5k posting and I also don't see an onslaught of give me traditional DAW features in Bitwig posts either. The top post of all time is "Announcing Bitwig Studio 4" with 126 comments.

I have no idea what the majority of those user want, or how many of those 8.5k in fact use Bitwig.


Over at Bitwish, well as of Feb 2022:

1168 votes cast by 251 voters out of (382 users, of the site)
A third of the users hasn’t voted.
Another third has cast between 1 and 4 votes.

Top request: MIDI capture (90 votes) and MIDI comping (88 votes). Head to head apparently. (lol midi comping, that's so funny)

Based on my very unscientific observation I can't say what the majority of Bitwig users want. I don't even know how many Bitwig users there are.

Hey but I have to give props to Bitwish, at least there's some kind stats/data there I can access. Good on Bitwish.

Right. You won't get a feel for why people are not using Bitwig. You are in the echo chambers.

For example on Reddit, I hang out on r/edmproduction. I hear the reasons people decided not to go with Bitwig or switched away from Bitwig. And they come up when someone asks what DAW they should start with or switch to. Or for that matter, I spent a lot of time looking at "the best DAW" google results, where they highlight the best features of a DAW.

It becomes obvious that the way to make Bitwig more attractive to a larger group of people is to improve the basic composing features, as a lot of people spend the majority of their time using them. Not sound designing. And if the arranger or piano roll is improved over the next year, that won't chase away any of the people who are into Bitwig mainly because of its sound design features.

How would you know that? When did I give you my internet history? Was I sleeping?

I've heard, on several occasion, why people switched to Bitwig from DAW X after trying X number of DAW's at the Super Duper Secret Forum of Advanced Prodigy Creators and God Gifted Engineers (real place for us elites) but that doesn't mean I know anything about what the majority of Bitwig users want. Feelings are useless here. We (or I anyways) need data.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with which path Bitwig should or might take. I actually don't care as it exceeds my needs by miles as is. Though I wouldn't mind a bad ass native step-sequencer because I like the visual approach to that style of music. Bitwig. I know you see me. You rule! Just one more for me, eh?. You can do it!

[liquidsound]

I took BW as "it was" and drop it as "it is".
I can't produce with it as I do with Ableton. Regardless of the current or unique features.

For me is quite simple: rather the ask and wait (and then complain because "crickets" from the developers) I respect their business vision and move on. If I can work with a tool, without major roadblock, then I keep going and hope for better upgrades that would or will enhance my music production. Otherwise, I move on as I actually did.

I still have the license (I never sell anything) and perhaps in the future things will match more closely my workflow.

Nothing wrong in asking for personal or "standard?" features. But getting aggravated? Really?

[cel4145]

That a cool story and all, and maybe you have info I don't, its possible, but there's like 20 (or something, usually the same people) of us here that post regularly.

I see 8.5k members on reddit but I don't see very many of those 8.5k posting and I also don't see an onslaught of give me traditional DAW features in Bitwig posts either. The top post of all time is "Announcing Bitwig Studio 4" with 126 comments.

I have no idea what the majority of those user want, or how many of those 8.5k in fact use Bitwig.


Over at Bitwish, well as of Feb 2022:

1168 votes cast by 251 voters out of (382 users, of the site)
A third of the users hasn’t voted.
Another third has cast between 1 and 4 votes.

Top request: MIDI capture (90 votes) and MIDI comping (88 votes). Head to head apparently. (lol midi comping, that's so funny)

Based on my very unscientific observation I can't say what the majority of Bitwig users want. I don't even know how many Bitwig users there are.

Hey but I have to give props to Bitwish, at least there's some kind stats/data there I can access. Good on Bitwish.

Right. You won't get a feel for why people are not using Bitwig. You are in the echo chambers.

For example on Reddit, I hang out on r/edmproduction. I hear the reasons people decided not to go with Bitwig or switched away from Bitwig. And they come up when someone asks what DAW they should start with or switch to. Or for that matter, I spent a lot of time looking at "the best DAW" google results, where they highlight the best features of a DAW.

It becomes obvious that the way to make Bitwig more attractive to a larger group of people is to improve the basic composing features, as a lot of people spend the majority of their time using them. Not sound designing. And if the arranger or piano roll is improved over the next year, that won't chase away any of the people who are into Bitwig mainly because of its sound design features.

How would you know that? When did I give you my internet history? Was I sleeping?

Well, you did write several paragraphs about what you gleaned from the echo chambers (lol), including thanking the Bitwish community for their data. Which is obviously representative of people that are heavily invested in Bitwig.

I've heard, on several occasion, why people switched to Bitwig from DAW X after trying X number of DAW's at the Super Duper Secret Forum of Advanced Prodigy Creators and God Gifted Engineers (real place for us elites) but that doesn't mean I know anything about what the majority of Bitwig users want. Feelings are useless here. We (or I anyways) need data.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with which path Bitwig should or might take. I actually don't care as it exceeds my needs by miles as is. Though I wouldn't mind a bad ass native step-sequencer because I like the visual approach to that style of music. Bitwig. I know you see me. You rule! Just one more for me, eh?. You can do it!

I don't know about the super secret forum. But looking at how Bitwig is potrayed in recommendation posts for a DAW, and on websites describing which DAW is the best, is useful market research for understanding how people are being led to choose Bitwig (or not).

And yes. A really nice step sequencer would be a great thing at some point

[pdxindy]

I took BW as "it was" and drop it as "it is".

Yeah... if something is not working for you, move on. Life is too short.

[pdxindy]

Though I wouldn't mind a bad ass native step-sequencer because I like the visual approach to that style of music.

Oh, I'd love the Logic Step Sequencer in Bitwig! It's powerful, immediate and fun.

[mtelesha]

Chords are a way to organize music and it is how I have always done it in my head. When I am playing a gig (especially Jazz with Sax) I usually just write out the Chord Progressions X? however many times they repeat for each section.

I just like seeing the chords. Doing things in measures are actually just more abstract to a simple Jazz Cheater Book. I have three years of Music Theory in College so it isn't because I need a crutch it's for organization purposes for me. They don't have to play or make a sound. I just think in chord progressions and sections. Heck, I prefer to have them in Nashville/Roman Numerals style myself instead of the actual key, so that it is universal to whatever key I want to play. So when I see IV I know I can drop down the harmony or passing chord/grace note super easy. Right now I have to look and press play to know what I am doing and where I am.


Also, I would love some more operators and more clip-launching options. I want to have a way to designate which clip block is the verse, chorus, bridge, vamp, etc.. Makes thing so hard for me right now having to just fill up empty clip blocks just so I can have everything time right for each section.

[liquidsound]

I took BW as "it was" and drop it as "it is".

Yeah... if something is not working for you, move on. Life is too short.

Trust me, it gets "too long" when things don't work

[JHernandez]

Well, you did write several paragraphs about what you gleaned from the echo chambers (lol), including thanking the Bitwish community for their data. Which is obviously representative of people that are heavily invested in Bitwig.

I got what I could by quickly visiting said sites, that doesn't mean I spend time at those sites regularly so I'm free of whatever echoes may or may not exist in these places.

The claim was, among others: "A quick look in the KVR and Reddit forums and it's clear that a majority of the newcomers and advanced musicians are unhappy with Bitwig's priority when it comes to Composer-focused improvement." I went with Bitwish because it's one of the "Wishlist site" (mentioned in the post) I've seen.

I won't even assume that Bitwish is representative of people heavily invested in Bitwig. A third of the users haven't voted at all according to the site. For all I know, 1/2 the site tried the demo 1 time and would like to see such features in Bitwig. I have no idea.

My point in a nutshell is that assuming what the majority of Bitwig users want or think based on seemingly unvetted numbers, a few posts and or subjective feelings is flawed.

Now, if anyone has objective data I'm all ears. (or eyes) That would be interesting.

[pierb]

Define experimental...

They just added 3 new FX...
They recently added some orchestral samples...
4.1 updated the Sampler...
4.0 was Comping, much improved export options, new track height zoom functions, perceptual waveform display, ability to import FL Studio and Live project files, M1 support
3.3 was wavetable synthesis, the ability to freely scale content, improved clip and event handling, AVX2 support

None of those things are what I would call experimental features...

Most of this doesn't really help with composition/music writing which is the whole thing we're debating here.

[lokanchung]

- Not experimental but not very useful.

They just added 3 new FX...

I have like 5 chorus plugins.

They recently added some orchestral samples...

Yeah, but there's tons of orchestral plugins out there.

- But the main features were experimental.

4.2 has Note Grid... which is experimental.

4.1 updated the Sampler...

Bunch of experimental Note FX.

4.0 was Comping, much improved export options, new track height zoom functions, perceptual
waveform display, ability to import FL Studio and Live project files, M1 support

And there's operators and random stuffs.

3.3 was wavetable synthesis, the ability to freely scale content, improved clip and event handling, AVX2 support

Probably least experimental update. But Polymer isn't that useful.

3.2 was about ugly colored EQ and extra devices.

I'd say there has been minimal improvement workflow-wise. Sound making stuff can be easily replaced, and surprisingly even with all those updates 3rd party plugins are still far better for creating commercial level sound.

[pdxindy]

- Not experimental but not very useful.

Bitwig obviously isn't for you.

[lokanchung]

Bitwig obviously isn't for you.

Stay experimental. Seek for possibilities
Without workflow improvment Bitwig would stuck with limited user base.

[pdxindy]

Stay experimental. Seek for possibilities
Without workflow improvment Bitwig would stuck with limited user base.

I don't see Bitwig as experimental... it is fairly standard DAW with some of its own differences. Like all of them really.

Userbase has been growing well... so maybe you are wrong

[cel4145]

I have like 5 chorus plugins.

Exactly.

While there is certainly value in updating the FX plugins, lots of people have their favorite FX plugins (especially users of this forum ). It's just as easy to load an external as an internal plugin into the device panel. Other than it might take a few more seconds to load the external plugin.

But external plugins will not substitute for improving composing usability in the arranger or midi editor or adding composing features.