Studio One workflow issues.. (Ableton fx-racks...?)

[xbitz]

about drums, event if you wouldn't like to use as drums I would use the general multi-out VST routing

one folder track (all the created automation tracks can be moved to here as a common place), one track for the instrument itself and additionally tracks for its outs, out goes to the instrument: Impact, the channel goes to the out: which is the kick in this example, in this case you will able to see both the source MIDI notes and the associated fxs too

ps. with the mixer

tuctuctuctuc as it should after dunno which version of S1 outs of multi-out VSTs also can be grouped etc. as simple tracks

[bermudagold]

Why would I want to do any of those things? Studio One doesn't have a session view, that's one of the things I like about it. We're not all DJs.

My point was to your question of what is a rack in ableton and why the OP thought it was special...I was only presenting session view as an analogy of functionality eventually copied in other DAWs, I wasn't advocating its use...

1.the ability to layer instruments, each with their own serial fx chains, velocity split and keysplit the layers as if they were samples in a sampler;...and morph between them with a single control like a vector synth, all in a single track....
2. the ability to turn off the resources of the plugins that are not currently in use when the morph control is not currently in their region, and have different clips in the track automatically switch layers triggered by the position of the play head in the arrangement
3. the ability to do the same thing with global fx for the track and midi fx for the track
4. the ability to make a single drum kit with each pad using a different group of plugins

Tracktion, HH, and Mulab can do most of these things, but it takes much longer and disciplined deterministic thinking due to their modular philosophy...I'm sure as with everything ableton, bitwig has this concept as well, and has probably improved and extended it even deeper.

I don't see how anyone could not appreciate the possibilities, and not say it is objectively good design...especially after actually trying it...I haven't seen any other DAW that can do these things as simply nor as quickly...I am not a current ableton user, but I will easily admit it is quite slick

[xbitz]

^^^ not the container what is missing from S1 >>https://s1manual.presonus.com/Content/B ... uments.htm but the modulation possibilities

it has to be done inside of some synth/sampler the DAW itself doesn't support it (Bitwig is the king of this)

[bermudagold]

^^^ not the container what is missing from S1 >>https://s1manual.presonus.com/Content/B ... uments.htm but the modulation possibilities

it has to be done inside of some synth/sampler the DAW itself doesn't support it (Bitwig is the king of this)

oh wow...that S1 link looks promising...looks like most of the ingredients are there and they are headed in that direction...I think most DAWs are finally implementing some semi-modular rack concept with visual routing, midi/audio utilities, and native modulation to use multiple plugins synergistically...it's just that the pioneers have been doing this for almost 20 yrs...I never understood why DAWs didn't realize the potential and took so long to adapt when the inherent advantages were obvious to me the first time I saw these implementations.

[xbitz]

^^^ Freestyle as a third-party solution can be used in every DAW

this is why I'm still using Cubase (same as the S1 internal solution above), in case you don't want to build synths or no need crazy modulations (although Reaktor can do these kinds of stuff)

https://www.kvraudio.com/product/freest ... sonic-arts

ps. most of the samplers like Falcon has a very complex modulation, macro and internal mixing system

and they also can be used in any DAW there is also that to consider.

[BONES]

My point was to your question of what is a rack in ableton and why the OP thought it was special...I was only presenting session view as an analogy of functionality eventually copied in other DAWs, I wasn't advocating its use...

And I was pointing out that Studio One doesn't have anything even remotely like a Session View and neither does Cubase. I don't think Logic has, either, does it? In fact, it's only Live and Bitwig with anything like that, isn't it?

The rest of your post is just about things you can do, without any explanation as why anyone would actually want to do those things or what advantages those things give anyone. It might make perfect sense to you but I have no idea why I should care about any of that shit, in much the same way that you probably don't understand why I like the Project Page in Studio One. But if I was trying to explain it to you, I wouldn't just list all the features it has, I'd explain why those features matter. interestingly, it's not the features themselves that matter with the Project Page, it's all about the uninterrupted workflow the whole thing offers.

What I see in the things you mention is a different, far more complicated way of doing something that seems really easy to me. e.g. If I wanted to "morph" from one thing to another, I'd just cross-fade the channels. Studio One turns off plugins that aren't being used so I don't see any issues around CPU usage doing it that way so why would I want to do something so horrendously convoluted as what you're suggesting?

[bermudagold]

And I was pointing out that Studio One doesn't have anything even remotely like a Session View and neither does Cubase. I don't think Logic has, either, does it? In fact, it's only Live and Bitwig with anything like that, isn't it?

Severely misinformed...Project5, Sonar (Cakewalk), Bitwig, Logic, Digital Performer, Reaper, and Mulab amongst others; have all directly copied it...almost all the others like FL have all added performance modes in response as well...but your still missing the point, nothing in the conversation was about session view...I merely brought it up as evidence of how all DAWs end up copying each others best ideas

The rest of your post is just about things you can do, without any explanation as why anyone would actually want to do those things or what advantages those things give anyone.

I did explain why, and the myriad of use cases were demonstrated in the videos,

What I see in the things you mention is a different, far more complicated way of doing something that seems really easy to me. e.g. If I wanted to "morph" from one thing to another, I'd just cross-fade the channels. Studio One turns off plugins that aren't being used so I don't see any issues around CPU usage doing it that way so why would I want to do something so horrendously convoluted as what you're suggesting?

That's what a vector synth is, an intuitive way to cross-fade with more than 2 sources...ableton had these elegant methods way before S1...in fact the improvements xbitz posted are in direct response to the functionality in ableton racks that people like,...hence the whole OPs thread

You're all over the place man lol...one minute you're all intellectual stressing logic and reason, the next minute you have no objectivity and cant see the forest from the trees
you're just not interesting in broadening your horizons beyond you're emotional based, non experiential biases....You know how many times I've watched you flip flop like a fish out of water on tools? ...greatest thing in the world one minute...trash the next

Why don't you watch the videos and then actually try something first, then come back and talk....instead of passionate disdain for things you haven't even taken the time to understand...what's the point of even being interested in different tools if your not willing to have an open mind, get out of your comfort zone, and see where a new workflow and perspective can take you?

[xbitz]

^^^ about the session view, also depends on your needs in Cubase arranger clips together with chords tracks(and scale/chord note highlighting) are fare more useable than any session view

... for progression building, for groove and drum patterns GA jam mode also usable than session view

so there are options in other DAWs too

[apoclypse]

My point was to your question of what is a rack in ableton and why the OP thought it was special...I was only presenting session view as an analogy of functionality eventually copied in other DAWs, I wasn't advocating its use...

And I was pointing out that Studio One doesn't have anything even remotely like a Session View and neither does Cubase. I don't think Logic has, either, does it? In fact, it's only Live and Bitwig with anything like that, isn't it?

Logic has Live Loops (basically session view). Has had it since 10.5. Also don't forget DP as well.

[jamcat]

WTF is a session view?
I create songs in the Arranger, like a normal person.

[apoclypse]

WTF is a session view?
I create songs in the Arranger, like a normal person.

WTF is an Arranger?
I create songs on tape like a normal person.

[jamcat]

So I found an Ableton tutorial video on the Session view just to see what it was all about. I see now it is made for morons. I'm so glad Studio One doesn't have anything like this. I would demand my money back if they ever added it. It's no way to go about creating real songs. But it's OK if you like to play DJ and create monotonous endless loops, I guess.

[Trancit]

nvm

[BONES]

Severely misinformed...Project5, Sonar (Cakewalk), Bitwig, Logic, Digital Performer, Reaper, and Mulab amongst others; have all directly copied it...almost all the others like FL have all added performance modes in response as well...but your still missing the point, nothing in the conversation was about session view...I merely brought it up as evidence of how all DAWs end up copying each others best ideas

Fair enough.

I did explain why, and the myriad of use cases were demonstrated in the videos,

No, they show what, not why and to me they seem like the dumbest idea. It might have made sense 10-15 years ago, when synths were a lot more basic, but these days you're much better off doing most of that stuff, which is basically just sound deign, in the instrument. In the Ablelton videos I watched all they ever ended up with was a sound for a track, something I can get from a synth on it's own, without all that faffing about.

You can do all that stuff in Studio One with Effects Chains and Instrument Groups, albeit in a slightly less integrated fashion, but I've never seen much value in it in S1, either. e.g. I'd never want to create a an effects chain for anything because I'll always want to do something a bit different to what I did previously, plus I'll want to make sure it suits what I'm doing, and a preset set of effects will just lead me down the path of making everything sound the same. Great for podcasters, and maybe people working to a deadline, not great for creativity in my experience.

It's stuff I might use at work, where re-creating the wheel is a way of life, but it's stuff I'd prefer to avoid when doing my own thing. I've tried that sort of stuff in the past and it's ended up being more of a hindrance than a help so now I don't bother.

That's what a vector synth is, an intuitive way to cross-fade with more than 2 sources...ableton had these elegant methods way before S1

"Elegant"!?! You've got to be f**king kidding me. It's a convoluted nightmare from where I'm sitting. OTOH, a simple cross-fade is pure elegance. If I need something more complex, I have a few VSTis that let you morph from one set of parameters to another. I can't imagine ever wanting to do it but it's there. Elsewhere, you can morph easily enough using a Mod Wheel in any synth with a Mod Matrix (and plenty without one). There are a couple of Obsession patches in the bank I put up here that illustrate that nicely.

You're all over the place man lol...one minute you're all intellectual stressing logic and reason, the next minute you have no objectivity and cant see the forest from the trees
you're just not interesting in broadening your horizons beyond you're emotional based

I'm exactly interested in that, pretty much every technique I use is something I've picked up from someone else, but all I am seeing here are different ways of doing things I've been able to do for ages. What I'm not seeing is any compelling evidence that those other ways have any advantages over my ways.

non experiential biases...

Yeah, except Bitwig does all that and I f**king hated the experience. I sold my license after about 6 months, it was awful. My experience informs my attitude because when you see it, it all looks pretty cool, it's only when you use it that you realise it has f**k-all to offer over more traditional methods. It works well enough in HY-Poly, which I use a bit but, again, no better than more traditional ways of interacting with effects in a synth.

You know how many times I've watched you flip flop like a fish out of water on tools?

That's because I can be convinced to change my f**king mind, I'm not stuck in a rut of doing things the same old ways for the rest of my life. That's why I tried Bitwig, that's why I tried Cubase and it's also why I tried Studio One. We could still be happily working in Orion, like Anx, because it still does everything we need it to and it's still reliable enough and having produced our last album in both Orion and Cubase, we know that it's still easily good enough to do top-notch production work. But you get in a rut and we wanted to shake things up, because that's what we do, that's how we learn and grow. That's why I bother arguing with you about this stuff.

[backtomusic]

So I found an Ableton tutorial video on the Session view just to see what it was all about. I see now it is made for morons. I'm so glad Studio One doesn't have anything like this. I would demand my money back if they ever added it. It's no way to go about creating real songs. But it's OK if you like to play DJ and create monotonous endless loops, I guess.

Isn't it obvious it isn't for creating song, although it can be used as such.
It's the "live" aspect of Ableton Live.

Consider a traditional daw, you want to improvise live.. how do you change order of the song and switch out loops to do a new arrangement while playing live in a linear daw with only an arranger.
Ofcourse, weather or not that is useful depends of what kind of music you do.

From a composing point of view, you can try ideas in session view before rearranging your timeline. So it can be convenient as sort of a scratch pad.

I'm no Ableton user though