Yamaha-SY99 Plugin?

[zerocrossing]

I don’t think it would really be an issue. Just use similar samples and a way for sample import for users to add whatever samples they want. It won’t exact, but maybe better.

[beely]

You can't advertise an "emulation" if it doesn't work, and sound, like the original - and bonus points for having *the* factory presets, and sysex import. People will expect it to sound the same, and therefore you need the original sample content. You'll also need to recreate 1:1 implementations of each of the FX algorithms, which will be a task in itself.

Now - you don't *have* to do *any* of that - but then it's not an SY99, it's something else. People have created plenty of "something else" plugins, using samples, FM, and effects, but that's not what we are talking about.

To do it properly, it would really have to be done by the manufacturer, who owns all the IP, recordings, technology and documentation - or licensed to a third-party developer who Yamaha give access to their IP.

Making something like that happen at Yamaha is almost an impossible task, due to the size of the company and the way it's structured. Much easier just to buy the hardware (which isn't that expensive) and enjoy it for what it is, imo.

[Watchful]

Agreed--like Korg did/does with its Legacy Collection.

One of the reasons Yamaha won't do anything with the Motif line is that all its samples still live in the Montage/MODX AWM2 engine. I wonder if any of the SY99 AWM2 samples are anywhere in the Motif. If so...there's the hitch.

[Teksonik]

Why is it even the simplest analog emulation has to be perfect down to the molecular level but anything that's even remotely sample based "ehhh just throw in any samples it'll be fine".

If someone wants an SY99 emulation then they have the right to want it to be as accurate as any analog emulation. They deserve the right to say "it doesn't sound anything like the hardware" too.

[ghettosynth]

Why is it even the simplest analog emulation has to be perfect down to the molecular level but anything that's even remotely sample based "ehhh just throw in any samples it'll be fine".

If someone wants an SY99 emulation then they have the right to want it to be as accurate as any analog emulation. They deserve the right to say "it doesn't sound anything like the hardware" too.

Fundamentally it's because a synth architecture can be interesting without the exact samples and samples are a huge barrier to accurate emulation of a large family of instruments from the past.

You're a bit off here talking about "rights" when you really mean desire. Sure, anyone can desire any degree of accuracy in an emulation. What people are saying is that a synth with a comparable architecture but without the exact samples would still be interesting. This is a bit less true with most vintage analogs. The architectures are all very similar and have been done many times over.

[Teksonik]

You're a bit off here talking about "rights" when you really mean desire.

No I mean rights. If someone declares the right to expect an analog emulation to be perfect and then examines that emulation under a microscope looking for flaws in the filter etc then anyone wanting a non-analog synth emulation has the same right to expect accuracy.

What people are saying is that a synth with a comparable architecture but without the exact samples would still be interesting.

Of course it would be interesting but that's not the point of an emulation.

My point is when someone wants an emulation of an analog synth they expect it to be accurate and they'll let the world know when it's not even if it's a minute detail, whether an actual or perceived flaw.

There should be no difference in the level of accuracy expected when someone wants for example in this case an SY99 emulation.

They want it to sound like an SY99 and not "let's just throw some samples out there and it will be good enough".

Whether an SY99 emulation is ever released or not due to legal reasons is a whole different discussion.

[planetearth]

The Syntronik sampled one is pretty good:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/syn99/

To be very clear, I don't know what the OP is talking about, but I'm definitely not talking about a mediocre rompler collection of samples with a simple subtractive back end. There isn't anything in Syntronik that could even come close to touching what the SY99 can do in terms of being an instrument.

There's this, and probably other SY99/SY77 sample libraries out there if you just want the sound of the presets.

https://rekkerd.org/gospelmusicians-rel ... brary-uvi/

Interesting. Here's what Gospelmusicians said about the library (from Gospelmusician.com):
"Since the SY99 contained one of the most sophisticated and advanced FM engines (AFM and RCM) of any of the Yamaha keyboards, we could not replicate this. In fact no one really can. So in order to compensate, we have included a re-creation of the the original 128 factory presets from the actual hardware by using sampling, synthesis, and sophisticated UVI scripting techniques"

They also state "Includes the hardware’s original 128 factory presets and 64 Wave Rom Presets".

It appears they basically did the same thing for their "BlueBeast®", a Yamaha EX5 library where they "captured all of the factory presets, along with all of the AWM, VL, and AN waveforms". (I find it kind of ironic that they bothered to put the registered trademark symbol onto the name of their library. The original EX5 may have been referred to as a "blue beast" by some, but that doesn't appear to be how Yamaha referred to it in anything I could find.)

So all that said, you...uh...you can't just sample factory presets from a ROMpler and re-sell them as your own library. I'm also fairly certain you can't sample the original waveforms and make them all available as such.

I generally like the UVI Digital Synsations library (which is "inspired by" an SY77), and would like to see some of Yamaha's early '90s ROMplers in VST form. But unlike the UVI or Syntronik approach, I'd like the VST to be as similar to the original architecture as possible.

Steve

[ghettosynth]

So all that said, you...uh...you can't just sample factory presets from a ROMpler and re-sell them as your own library. I'm also fairly certain you can't sample the original waveforms and make them all available as such.

That's right, of course. They claim to have licensed them.

viewtopic.php?t=431747&start=15

With Syntronik they state outright "Syntronik includes only FM sounds from the SY99"

[planetearth]

So all that said, you...uh...you can't just sample factory presets from a ROMpler and re-sell them as your own library. I'm also fairly certain you can't sample the original waveforms and make them all available as such.

That's right, of course. They claim to have licensed them.

viewtopic.php?t=431747&start=15

With Syntronik they state outright "Syntronik includes only FM sounds from the SY99"

I think it’s interesting that they don’t say much about their “license” other than “Yes”, as in they have a license.

It’s also interesting that a relatively small developer has a license to distribute Yamaha “raw” waveforms and factory sounds, yet no one else has bothered to try to re-create the synths.

I get that UVI’s Workstation and IKMM’s Syntronik are different takes on “classic” synths (and not “emulations”), but if it were that easy to license Yamaha synth factory sounds, why hasn’t anyone else done it — especially since so many people want a usable Yamaha VSTi. Seems Arturia could have done it by now, for example. (I mention them mostly because when they create an emulation, they tend to include factory presets. Arturia haters, save your cards and letters.) I’m not suggesting they don’t have a license — I’m just surprised they’re the only ones who seem to and they haven’t really capitalized on it.

Steve

[ghettosynth]

So all that said, you...uh...you can't just sample factory presets from a ROMpler and re-sell them as your own library. I'm also fairly certain you can't sample the original waveforms and make them all available as such.

That's right, of course. They claim to have licensed them.

viewtopic.php?t=431747&start=15

With Syntronik they state outright "Syntronik includes only FM sounds from the SY99"

I think it’s interesting that they don’t say much about their “license” other than “Yes”, as in they have a license.

It’s also interesting that a relatively small developer has a license to distribute Yamaha “raw” waveforms and factory sounds, yet no one else has bothered to try to re-create the synths.

I get that UVI’s Workstation and IKMM’s Syntronik are different takes on “classic” synths (and not “emulations”), but if it were that easy to license Yamaha synth factory sounds, why hasn’t anyone else done it — especially since so many people want a usable Yamaha VSTi. Seems Arturia could have done it by now, for example. (I mention them mostly because when they create an emulation, they tend to include factory presets. Arturia haters, save your cards and letters.) I’m not suggesting they don’t have a license — I’m just surprised they’re the only ones who seem to and they haven’t really capitalized on it.

Steve

Perhaps they know a guy? It seems strange to me as well, but they say that they have a license and I have no data to the contrary, so I'll take it at face value. I'm not interested in the product as much as I'm interested in interesting synths based on FM.

[planetearth]

So all that said, you...uh...you can't just sample factory presets from a ROMpler and re-sell them as your own library. I'm also fairly certain you can't sample the original waveforms and make them all available as such.

That's right, of course. They claim to have licensed them.

viewtopic.php?t=431747&start=15

With Syntronik they state outright "Syntronik includes only FM sounds from the SY99"

I think it’s interesting that they don’t say much about their “license” other than “Yes”, as in they have a license.

It’s also interesting that a relatively small developer has a license to distribute Yamaha “raw” waveforms and factory sounds, yet no one else has bothered to try to re-create the synths.

I get that UVI’s Workstation and IKMM’s Syntronik are different takes on “classic” synths (and not “emulations”), but if it were that easy to license Yamaha synth factory sounds, why hasn’t anyone else done it — especially since so many people want a usable Yamaha VSTi. Seems Arturia could have done it by now, for example. (I mention them mostly because when they create an emulation, they tend to include factory presets. Arturia haters, save your cards and letters.) I’m not suggesting they don’t have a license — I’m just surprised they’re the only ones who seem to and they haven’t really capitalized on it.

Steve

Perhaps they know a guy? It seems strange to me as well, but they say that they have a license and I have no data to the contrary, so I'll take it at face value. I'm not interested in the product as much as I'm interested in interesting synths based on FM.

Same here.

Steve

[arkmabat]

In regards to copyrighted sounds in a synth, Simmons okayed the downloading of samples of their old kits from a popular German drum-sample collection site and Access Virus waveforms were given to a developer to distribute alongside his Virus-inspired vst. Yes these are copyrighted, but with permission sometimes they can be used still or even distributed. It's worth your time to ask before automatically assuming the worst.

At this time, we are going to forward this up to our product managers, who will be able to take further action on this. In the meantime, please feel free to use it, if it is available.

Please feel free to email me back with any further questions, or concerns.

We listen to our customers and want to hear your feedback. Feel free to contact us if you have any suggestions, questions, or concerns regarding the service that you have received today. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Zachary T.
Simmons Product Support

That was 2013 and they're all there still up.

[ghettosynth]

In regards to copyrighted sounds in a synth, Simmons okayed the downloading of samples of their old kits from a popular German drum-sample collection site and Access Virus waveforms were given to a developer to distribute alongside his Virus-inspired vst. Yes these are copyrighted, but with permission sometimes they can be used still or even distributed. It's worth your time to ask before automatically assuming the worst.

Sure, but, we're not talking about a relatively small player in the sample industry like Simmons. It's even possible that their old samples aren't actually protectable. This can happen if there isn't a copyright notice in the ROM. The Roland MT32 ROM had this problem.

However, when you're talking about the big three, Yamaha, Roland, Korg, this is much less likely. I agree with planetearth here. If this were that easy, someone like Arturia would have probably taken this up long ago. Who knows, maybe you'll see something like that in the next V-Collection.

[beely]

The response of GM gave me little confidence or reason to believe them, personally. It might be true, but it was dismissive and didn’t ring genuine, to me…

[gentleclockdivider]

The Syntronik sampled one is pretty good:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/syn99/

To be very clear, I don't know what the OP is talking about, but I'm definitely not talking about a mediocre rompler collection of samples with a simple subtractive back end. There isn't anything in Syntronik that could even come close to touching what the SY99 can do in terms of being an instrument.

There's this, and probably other SY99/SY77 sample libraries out there if you just want the sound of the presets.

https://rekkerd.org/gospelmusicians-rel ... brary-uvi/

Interesting. Here's what Gospelmusicians said about the library (from the Gospelmusician.com's site):
"Since the SY99 contained one of the most sophisticated and advanced FM engines (AFM and RCM) of any of the Yamaha keyboards, we could not replicate this. In fact no one really can. So in order to compensate, we have included a re-creation of the the original 128 factory presets from the actual hardware by using sampling, synthesis, and sophisticated UVI scripting techniques"

They also state "Includes the hardware’s original 128 factory presets and 64 Wave Rom Presets".

I don't know Gospel musicians .org , but what they are basically saying is "we are not coders so the best we can do is provide you with a sample pack "
Sure the sy77-99-tg 77 are complex machines but I am sure a mastermind like David Plogue can pull it off .
The provided Rom is nothing to write home about ( I only use them as modulators ) , and all the Yamaha ROM cards are available from sector 101 ( who makes the data and waveblade cards )
https://www.sector101.co.uk/waveblade.html.