Version 12 release date?

[asprog]

[midklang]

... it's common knowledge that Waveform has been woefully underpriced for YEARS. ...

As reaper is my main DAW I have to say: no, or you say, reaper is a kind of giveaway.
I don't complain, it is the nowadays 'normal' pricerange. But as I said reaper as my main DAW I will think twice about it if I upgrade waveform for more or less nostalgic reasons or not.
horst

[paradiddle]

So I load 4osc on a track. Select a preset and trying to go through more presets by pressing the right arrow and nothing. Only going left works. Latest win10 here. Anybody have this prob?

[skipscada]

So I load 4OSC on a track. Select a preset and trying to go through more presets by pressing the right arrow and nothing. Only going left works. Latest win10 here. Anybody have this prob?

Tried to check this, but 4OSC doesn't even show the patch menu here. I can only load presets by clicking "load preset" and choosing from the list. No arrows, no patch name etc. For comparison, BassOSC works as expected, showing the patch menu and arrows working as expected.

[paradiddle]

Ok cool! Thanks for checking!

[bermudagold]

I'm more confused about the strategy and direction of Tracktion sometimes...they need more transparency and communication...when releases seem bumbled or haphazard you run unnecessary risk of alienating customers...

Take basic fx...previously we were told their philosophy was to remain bare bones and NOT try to be a complete package to keep price low...we were asked to pay 199 for DAW essentials instead of including basic effects in the DAW and rolling their cost into the DAW price...but then you turn around and make stock DAW effects...spending/wasting development resources on redundant overlapping functionality...then you decide DAW essentials is part of basic package and roll it back to be being subsidized in the price of the DAW?...so people who bought it are now paying for it again in an upgrade when it wasn't upgraded itself?

But then you spin off collective as separate product in line with the first philosophy again,...then what is the new rompler in stock?...resources spent on redundant overlapping functionality again?...

Then you introduced subtractive...the fourth product that is either stripped down or extended from biotek...and that was stock?...but then you add 4osc and bass osc; redundant/overlap functionality as stock...so does that mean you are now going to break off subtractive as separate?

First MS and DS were only in pro,...now they are in Free?
It seems like your loyal customers and early adopters are subsidizing the cost of functionality for Waveform Free...I don't think that is the best use of development resources funded by your paying customers...Every thread everywhere is dominated by obnoxious entitled freeloaders complaining...I would be interested in the data...I doubt a significant percentage of the free users upgrade to pro...I think you should get rid of it and stick with OEM as an introduction....if you can afford a computer, and broadband internet to download tons of plugins, you can save up for Tracktion, or one of the many other DAWs under $150; or just use Cakewalk subsidized by billionaire inheritance; or one of the many other free DAWs

So what exactly makes up the pro upgrade cost?...is it re-upping licensing fees for Antares and Celemony?...then say that then,...and let people choose whether to go that route...wasn't that the first philosophy?...100$ every year changes the value added proposition...in that case, spread over five years, your now competing with one of the big boys where you'll be getting objectively more for your money from the beginning with one of them upfront...and if that is your aim, I don't have a problem with it, but then say so....so people can invest their time and money wisely

Who is the target demographic and why?....IMO Tracktion needs to study the market, find the gaps, choose the gaps they want to fill in...have a strategy and philosophy, be completely transparent about what that is, and communicate clearly and frequently....I am a customer and supporter who wants to believe they will thrive, but some of the events over time don't exactly inspire confidence

[paulo_apo]

Take basic fx...previously we were told their philosophy was to remain bare bones and NOT try to be a complete package...we were asked to pay 199 for DAW essentials instead of including basic effects in the DAW and rolling their cost into the DAW price...but then you turn around and make stock DAW effects...spending/wasting development resources on redundant overlapping functionality...then you decide DAW essentials is part of basic package and roll it back to be being subsidized in the price of the DAW?...so people who bought it are now paying for it again in an upgrade when it wasn't upgraded itself?

(...)

100$ every year changes the value added proposition...in that case, spread over five years, your now competing with one of the big boys where you'll be getting objectively more for your money from the beginning with one of them upfront...and if that is your aim, I don't have a problem with it, but then say so....so people can invest their time and money wisely

This is spot on. Aside from the fact that competitors with big names also charge regularly for upgrades.

I like waveform quite a bit, so it has enough value to me that I see no issue in paying a reasonable amount.

The bigger problem lies in not knowing exactly what the changes in periodicity and pricing of upgrades mean from now on.

[bermudagold]

Take basic fx...previously we were told their philosophy was to remain bare bones and NOT try to be a complete package...we were asked to pay 199 for DAW essentials instead of including basic effects in the DAW and rolling their cost into the DAW price...but then you turn around and make stock DAW effects...spending/wasting development resources on redundant overlapping functionality...then you decide DAW essentials is part of basic package and roll it back to be being subsidized in the price of the DAW?...so people who bought it are now paying for it again in an upgrade when it wasn't upgraded itself?

(...)

100$ every year changes the value added proposition...in that case, spread over five years, your now competing with one of the big boys where you'll be getting objectively more for your money from the beginning with one of them upfront...and if that is your aim, I don't have a problem with it, but then say so....so people can invest their time and money wisely

This is spot on. Aside from the fact that competitors with big names also charge regularly for upgrades.

I like waveform quite a bit, so it has enough value to me that I see no issue in paying a reasonable amount.

The bigger problem lies in not knowing exactly what the changes in periodicity and pricing of upgrades mean from now on.

by all means time is money,...and they need to recoup development costs and eat...no problem with that, but the market is the market...which means you need to be more strategic and deliberate than ever to be viable let alone sustainable...from what I've seen most of the big boys don't have annual paid upgrades,..that's why I brought up the 5 yr amortization...wasn't this ambiguity before the pivot to subscription exactly what caused the bitwig uproar?
lets face it...tracktion made their brand on the bare bones budget DAW...if they want to pivot from that, then they need to explain the roadmap how they are gonna get there, and communicate that.

[fde101]

from what I've seen most of the big boys don't have annual paid upgrades,

Cubase Pro upgrades come out roughly every year and are about $100 if you have the most recent version prior to the new one (more if upgrading from something older).

Studio One Pro major (paid) upgrades come out roughly every 2-3 years and are about $150 (regardless of previous version).

The upgrade from Ableton Live Suite 10 to Ableton Live Suite 11 is $230. Upgrades are somewhat sporadic for Live, anywhere from 1 - 4 years apart.

On the other end of the scale, FL Studio version upgrades are free for life.

Apple released Logic Pro X in 1993 and hasn't charged for a paid upgrade to it since (but when they do release a paid version there is generally no upgrade cost so you need to buy it all over again - granted that at $200 it is cheaper to by Logic outright than to buy even one upgrade to Ableton Live Suite, though it costs more than a new license of Waveform).

[bermudagold]

from what I've seen most of the big boys don't have annual paid upgrades,

Cubase Pro upgrades come out roughly every year and are about $100 if you have the most recent version prior to the new one (more if upgrading from something older).

Studio One Pro major (paid) upgrades come out roughly every 2-3 years and are about $150 (regardless of previous version).

The upgrade from Ableton Live Suite 10 to Ableton Live Suite 11 is $230. Upgrades are somewhat sporadic for Live, anywhere from 1 - 4 years apart.

On the other end of the scale, FL Studio version upgrades are free for life.

Apple released Logic Pro X in 1993 and hasn't charged for a paid upgrade to it since (but when they do release a paid version there is generally no upgrade cost so you need to buy it all over again - granted that at $200 it is cheaper to by Logic outright than to buy even one upgrade to Ableton Live Suite, though it costs more than a new license of Waveform).

the more data points the better for perspective...thanks

[vitocorleone123]

Is it me, or can I no longer drag synths/fx to a track, or even from one track to another? That's a huge usability impact for me as that's how I've done it for many years and versions of the DAW.

[FigBug]

Is it me, or can I no longer drag synths/fx to a track, or even from one track to another? That's a huge usability impact for me as that's how I've done it for many years and versions of the DAW.

That should still work. What OS are you on?

[UnionS8]

Is it me, or can I no longer drag synths/fx to a track, or even from one track to another? That's a huge usability impact for me as that's how I've done it for many years and versions of the DAW.

It still works, but now you have to put it right next to the present plugins (a blue glow appears), otherwise it doesn't work.

[fde101]

I need to make a correction to my above post: I must have been tired last night but I misread something when I looked up that release date. 1993 is when the original version of Logic was released (version 1), Logic Pro X was released in 2013.

[Lutin mutin]

@ bermudagold

I'm more confused about the strategy and direction of Tracktion sometimes...they need more transparency and communication...when releases seem bumbled or haphazard you run unnecessary risk of alienating customers...

Take basic fx...previously we were told their philosophy was to remain bare bones and NOT try to be a complete package to keep price low...we were asked to pay 199 for DAW essentials instead of including basic effects in the DAW and rolling their cost into the DAW price...but then you turn around and make stock DAW effects...spending/wasting development resources on redundant overlapping functionality...then you decide DAW essentials is part of basic package and roll it back to be being subsidized in the price of the DAW?...so people who bought it are now paying for it again in an upgrade when it wasn't upgraded itself?

[....] [...]

+ 10 !!!