Loading non-M1 plug-ins in an M1 DAW?

[Blue Cat Audio]

Hi,

Just wanted to mention that we have added the ability to load non-M1 Audio Units in our plug-ins hosts (PatchWork, Axiom, Late Replies and MB-7 Mixer) thru Apple's system bridge. It can be used as a way to load non-M1 plug-ins in native M1 hosts that do not support it (such as Cubase 12 for example).

It also means that the standalone versions of Axiom and PatchWork can now mix M1 and non-M1 plug-ins (if available as Audio Units), so you do not have to use Rosetta anymore to use older plug-ins that are not M1-ready yet.

You can get more information about it in the effects forum here:
viewtopic.php?t=579924

[Markus Krause]

great work!
Is it limited to Audio Units? I have noticed that a couple of DAWs can do it also for vst

[Blue Cat Audio]

Yes it is limited to Audio Units, as we are using the bridge built into MacOS.

[jamcat]

Duplicate

[jamcat]

Hi,

Just wanted to mention that we have added the ability to load non-M1 Audio Units in our plug-ins hosts

Hello Blue Cat!

I gave PatchWork a try in Studio One 5 on my M1 MacBook Pro.

I have a very specific use case:
Toontrack discontinued EZplayer, so it will never be M1 native. I can load the AU version of it in M1 native Studio One, but it doesn’t show up in the MIDI input list, so it can't actually send MIDI to a VST instrument. If I run Studio One in Rosetta2, I can use the VST version and it shows up in the MIDI Input list just fine, so it can be used.

So I was hoping PatchWork would be able to help use EZplayer in native M1 somehow.
I am able to load the AU EZplayer in PatchWork, and I am able to select PatchWork as a MIDI input in my virtual drummer. But despite this, no MIDI is sent from PatchWork to the VST drummer.

Is there a way to correct this, or is MIDI output from an AU plugin just something that Apple broke?

[Blue Cat Audio]

PatchWork supports MIDI out from Audio Units (if they support it), but some hosts do not support it well.

If I understand well, you are loading only EZPlayer in PatchWork and want to send MIDI events to the VST outside of Patchwork? In this case, you need to click on the EZPlayer plug-in inside PatchWork, and select "Host" in "MIDI Output" so that MIDI events from the plug-ins are sent to the host.

[jamcat]

PatchWork supports MIDI out from Audio Units (if they support it), but some hosts do not support it well.

If I understand well, you are loading only EZPlayer in PatchWork and want to send MIDI events to the VST outside of Patchwork? In this case, you need to click on the EZPlayer plug-in inside PatchWork, and select "Host" in "MIDI Output" so that MIDI events from the plug-ins are sent to the host.

Thanks. I tried that, and I still got no MIDI out. As a test, I opened Studio One in Rosetta2, and loaded the VST3 version of EZplayer in the AU version of BC PatchWork, and it worked 100%.

So the problem is specifically with the MIDI out from the AU version of EZplayer, which is what I initially suspected. So there is likely nothing either PreSonus or you could 'fix' to make it work. ToonTrack would have to fix it, and I don't think that's going to happen.

EZplayer was last updated January 2015. I'm back to thinking Apple changed something fundamental with how AU plugins send MIDI since then.

[Blue Cat Audio]

Our plug-ins have been supporting MIDI out as AUs for more than a decade, and I don't think there has been any change there (Apple has changed almost everything else, but not this one!). However this is a feature that is often overlooked by developers (it's very poorly documented), and many have not implemented it in Audio Unit format. So I would not be surprised if this particular plug-in did not have any MIDI output when run as an Audio Unit.

[jamcat]

That would be a bit odd though, because EZplayer literally has one job: to send MIDI drum patterns out to another instrument's MIDI input. Could they have really released a plugin that was never tested and never worked in Logic? There must be another explanation.

[roringtonsmithe]

[machinesworking]

That would be a bit odd though, because EZplayer literally has one job: to send MIDI drum patterns out to another instrument's MIDI input. Could they have really released a plugin that was never tested and never worked in Logic? There must be another explanation.

This is I would bet due to the way Logic deals with MIDI out compared to every other DAW I own that uses MIDI out. AU gets developed with Logic in mind, and Logic hosts MIDI out plug ins in it's own little slot in the mixer strip, whereas Live, DP, Reaper, etc. all publish the plug in as a selectable input source on midi and instrument tracks etc.

In other words AU gets use case developed for the one DAW that does it differently, Logic is de facto the choice for debugging AU. Since most other DAWs that can host AU on Mac OS also host VST, developers decide not to debug the Logic specific AU code they made for Logics MIDI out implementation. The only positive to this is AU3 seems to show up in a logical way in other DAWs.

[machinesworking]

thru Apple's system bridge. It can be used as a way to load non-M1 plug-ins in native M1 hosts that do not support it (such as Cubase 12 for example).

It also means that the standalone versions of Axiom and PatchWork can now mix M1 and non-M1 plug-ins (if available as Audio Units), so you do not have to use Rosetta anymore to use older plug-ins that are not M1-ready yet.

Question, are you saying you could remove Rosetta from your system and the plug ins would work inside your hosts? Isn't Patchwerks etc. just calling up Rosetta for that one VST plug in like it was running stand alone or in a Rosetta DAW?

Seriously thinking about getting Patchwerks for Breaktweaker and a few other plug ins that do not run that well in Rosetta AU.

[jamcat]

That would be a bit odd though, because EZplayer literally has one job: to send MIDI drum patterns out to another instrument's MIDI input. Could they have really released a plugin that was never tested and never worked in Logic? There must be another explanation.

This is I would bet due to the way Logic deals with MIDI out compared to every other DAW I own that uses MIDI out. AU gets developed with Logic in mind, and Logic hosts MIDI out plug ins in it's own little slot in the mixer strip, whereas Live, DP, Reaper, etc. all publish the plug in as a selectable input source on midi and instrument tracks etc.

In other words AU gets use case developed for the one DAW that does it differently, Logic is de facto the choice for debugging AU. Since most other DAWs that can host AU on Mac OS also host VST, developers decide not to debug the Logic specific AU code they made for Logics MIDI out implementation. The only positive to this is AU3 seems to show up in a logical way in other DAWs.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, MIDI-out AU plugins are loaded in a MIDI FX insert slot in Logic and thus they connect automatically to the instrument whose slot they're in. Because of this, there likely never was a configurable MIDI out port in the plugin, and that's why it isn't seen by Studio One in the MIDI Input list?

[machinesworking]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, MIDI-out AU plugins are loaded in a MIDI FX insert slot in Logic and thus they connect automatically to the instrument whose slot they're in. Because of this, there likely never was a configurable MIDI out port in the plugin, and that's why it isn't seen by Studio One in the MIDI Input list?

Mostly it's that Logic puts the plug in, inline in the same track with the AU instrument or FX it's sending MIDI out to. People think it's great but I still don't get how you use MIDI out from a drum machine AUi for instance without it getting weird. I haven't used Studio One since it came out, but I would bet it publishes MIDI out from a VSTi etc. as a MIDI input choice, basically to it's internal MIDI bussing system. That's what most DAWs do.

So, my guess is most developers are "fixing" AUi MIDI out to work with the specific way Logic handles MIDI out, which more like a MIDI FX plug in native to the DAW like DP, Live etc. have. Then not bothering to fix it to work with the rest of the AUi capable DAWs on Mac OS since they all also do VSTi which works just fine.

[jamcat]

UPDATE: This conversation got me thinking in a different way about getting MIDI out from EZplayer. I tried it out in GarageBand and saw that it was automatically sending MIDI out directly to the host. So I went back to Studio One to see if there was a way I could get to this MIDI stream. I ended up creating a new MIDI device by clicking "Configure..." under the MIDI Input list. EZplayer showed up THERE in the "Receive From" menu. Now my new EZplayer "MIDI device" shows up as an available device in my MIDI Input list!

Blue Cat, hopefully this information could be useful to you for tapping the MIDI out data from AU plugins that behave this way.