Korg Wavestate and Opsix for Win/Mac

[beely]

I think though that denormals can happen no matter what the chip, because it's a mathematical problem with very small floating point numbers...

I'm not sure, I'll leave that to someone who knows the specific technical details perhaps to confirm. You may well be correct - my understanding was that it was an issue with the Pentium chip when you hit those small values, but I might be conflating that with the Intel chip issue where it couldn't add numbers correctly.

In any case, yes it's absolutely an issue, Korg are aware of it, and hopefully it will get fixed in a forthcoming update!

[EvilDragon]

CPUs nowadays (for quite some time actually) have on-chip solutions for denormals (FTZ - flush to zero and DAZ - denormals are zero registers). So no special coding needs to be done in the plugin to combat them, you just set up compiler flags to activate that. Both Intel and ARM CPUs have this capability.

That said I am not convinced this issue is necessarily caused by denormals...

[c_huelsbeck]

CPUs nowadays (for quite some time actually) have on-chip solutions for denormals (FTZ - flush to zero and DAZ - denormals are zero registers). So no special coding needs to be done in the plugin to combat them, you just set up compiler flags to activate that. Both Intel and ARM CPUs have this capability.

That said I am not convinced this issue is necessarily caused by denormals...

That may very well be and I don't have enough knowledge myself about that, but the behavior feels exactly like the denormal issues of early plugins... it might be that they did not set their compiler flags correctly then!

[kritikon]

It's not denormals, it's gremlins. Korg forgot to feed them before they sent them out for sale, and they got grumpy.

[bungle15]

hi To Korg users

i have repeatedly put, when is Korg going to update their plugins in the Korg Collection to VST3
you cannot find an answer anywhere and i am surprised that nobody is really asking about it.
I know that in Cubase 12 just released the collection works fine on Vst 2.4.
I do not know why Korg is dragging it's heels into the future.


All the Best
John

[SLiC]

Plenty of plug ins still not VST3, UVI Flacon only went VST3 the other week...I am sure it will come soon enough, the last 2 Korg Plugs were only VST3 sand some DAWS (well, Reason) cant even load VST3s yet.

[c_huelsbeck]

Maybe updating source codes to VST3 is a bigger problem than we think... is there a programmer here that can shed light on this?

[Teksonik]

Adding to the idle CPU conversation, here is Wavestate sitting idle on an i7 8700K 6 core 12 thread with a turbo speed of 4.7GHz.

S1-FL 040222-4.png

WS-FL 040222-2.png

There doesn't appear to be anything in the patches themselves that is causing the CPU demand. Turning everything off seems to have little to no effect.

Adding additional instances doesn't increase the amount. GUI open or closed makes no difference.

I have not yet received any responses to my two support tickets so at this point I'm going to pass on purchasing Wavestate.

If Korg fixes the idle CPU issue and keeps the introductory price I'll reconsider.

[Biome_Digital]

Adding to the idle CPU conversation, here is Wavestate sitting idle on an i7 8700K 6 core 12 thread with a turbo speed of 4.7GHz.


S1-FL 040222-4.png



WS-FL 040222-2.png


There doesn't appear to be anything in the patches themselves that is causing the CPU demand. Turning everything off seems to have little to no effect.

Adding additional instances doesn't increase the amount. GUI open or closed makes no difference.

I have not yet received any responses to my two support tickets so at this point I'm going to pass on purchasing Wavestate.

If Korg fixes the idle CPU issue and keeps the introductory price I'll reconsider.

Oh wow, that's a bit worrying. I will wait until stable and have a look again in a sale sometime.

[bnz]

Is it just me or is opsix native pretty unpolished at least on Windows?
- UI is sluggish as hell
- It comes only as VST3 plugin and suggests C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins as a placement folder by default (which is where most DAWs don't look for VST3 plugins). It took a while until a realized I had to point the installer to Common Files\VST3 in order for my DAWs to even find it.
- When I tried to uninstall and reinstall it to find out whether I did something wrong, I didn't find it in the programs listing under KORG where all the other Korg plugins are. It took me a while to realize it may be listed under opsix and not under Korg.
- ...

The weirdest thing is: everything opsix native does wrong (in my eyes), wavestate native does right. Proper UI, proper proper UI coloring (who still makes such an eye-soring white background nowadays), proper plugin folder placement, proper preset browser (with categories, author and details visible).

[D-Fusion]

Is it just me or is opsix native pretty unpolished at least on Windows?
- UI is sluggish as hell
- It comes only as VST3 plugin and suggests C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins as a placement folder by default (which is where most DAWs don't look for VST3 plugins). It took a while until a realized I had to point the installer to Common Files\VST3 in order for my DAWs to even find it.
- When I tried to uninstall and reinstall it to find out whether I did something wrong, I didn't find it in the programs listing under KORG where all the other Korg plugins are. It took me a while to realize it may be listed under opsix and not under Korg.
- ...

The weirdest thing is: everything opsix native does wrong (in my eyes), wavestate native does right. Proper UI, proper proper UI coloring (who still makes such an eye-soring white background nowadays), proper plugin folder placement, proper preset browser (with categories, author and details visible).

There is something serious wrong with the OPSiX which needs to get fixed so it is not only you.
Hope to see a fix very soon since this is not acceptable at a price of $149.

[EnGee]

I'm not encountering any problem! In fact they are both behaving well and their performance is better than Massive X or Pigments!

Still didn't delve deep into them, but OPSix is slightly more demanding on cpu than Wavestate. Average is about 10% to 15% (Turbo is disabled on my system! Because it trigger the fans loudly).

I find the GUI pleasant! It's a matter of taste I think!

[D-Fusion]

I'm not encountering any problem! In fact they are both behaving well and their performance is better than Massive X or Pigments!

Still didn't delve deep into them, but OPSix is slightly more demanding on cpu than Wavestate. Average is about 10% to 15% (Turbo is disabled on my system! Because it trigger the fans loudly).

I find the GUI pleasant! It's a matter of taste I think!

Have you Checked the Cpu usage in Task Manager if you are on Windows (OPSiX)?
On one of my setups it was fast and snappy and showed reasonable Cpu usage in My Daws Cubase 12 and Studio One V5 so everything seemed normal but yet it wasn't.

In Taskmanager it showed 40+% Cpu usage Without even playing When the Gui was open and when i Closed the Gui it showed the same cpu usage as in the Daw's.

[EnGee]

Have you Checked the Cpu usage in Task Manager if you are on Windows (OPSiX)?
On one of my setups it was fast and snappy and showed reasonable Cpu usage in My Daws Cubase 12 and Studio One V5 so everything seemed normal but yet it wasn't.

In Taskmanager it showed 40+% Cpu usage Without even playing When the Gui was open and when i Closed the Gui it showed the same cpu usage as in the Daw's.

I see now what you mean! Yes in the task manager is much higher than Massive X and Pigments, but in Ableton Live itself, it is little bit less than Pigments!

I don't know! Still, for me, it is not a problem, but maybe for other CPUs it might be? Well, it would be great if they can do it with less CPU usage and better optimization if they don't sacrifice the quality.

Here is a screenshot of playing a tri-chord (it is little bit less when idle!) compared to Pigments:

[kritikon]

Is it just me or is opsix native pretty unpolished at least on Windows?
- UI is sluggish as hell
- It comes only as VST3 plugin and suggests C:\Program Files\VSTPlugins as a placement folder by default (which is where most DAWs don't look for VST3 plugins). It took a while until a realized I had to point the installer to Common Files\VST3 in order for my DAWs to even find it.
- When I tried to uninstall and reinstall it to find out whether I did something wrong, I didn't find it in the programs listing under KORG where all the other Korg plugins are. It took me a while to realize it may be listed under opsix and not under Korg.
- ...

The weirdest thing is: everything opsix native does wrong (in my eyes), wavestate native does right. Proper UI, proper proper UI coloring (who still makes such an eye-soring white background nowadays), proper plugin folder placement, proper preset browser (with categories, author and details visible).

The installation folder thing isn't just Korg though. In my experience the majority of plugins want to default install to all kinds of nonsense folders. I've had them install in the folder you mentioned, an old Cakewalk VST plugin folder, the program files x86 or whatever it's called...almost any kind of folder with VST in its name except the common files/VST3 one that Cubase uses. At least they all give the option to install in the right one, though some are not intuitive IMO. Actually if someone didn't have computer knowledge it would be very easy to get stuck at the first hurdle finding where some twat installer installed your plugins. Valhalla and Melda are the only recent ones I used that are notable by installing properly and automatically into the right one by default. I do admit Korg are annoying in their insistence on installing standalones and Korg folders all over the f**king place...none of which I want. I only have the original oldies collection plus Odyssey then the two recent Native ones, and I must have around 25 Korg folders dotted around. But they're def not the only culprits.

GUI...personal taste. TBH I love the white Opsix one - it's so easy to find everything you want and easy on the eye IMO. Not so keen on the Wavestate one - too dark, too cluttered (but then there's a shitload of stuff in there).

As for sluggish - yeah. Seems to be different for everyone though. Mine on initial load up was almost unusable, it was so slow. But very weirdly after a short while it sped up. Still a tiny lag but very usable. Almost like it had warmed up. Bizarre.

TBH I haven't checked Wavestate CPU. Opsix seems to go for 20-25% on the Cubase performance metre, but that's just at idle. It doesn't use any more when you play it (unless obvs I play tons of notes at the same time). I haven't checked it with the GUI off - must do that. I can def use it OK but it is heavy CPU at idle.