New MPE synths...
-
- KVRAF
- 2721 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
No problem and thanks for letting me know. I've just added them.
-
- KVRAF
- 4720 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle
I ordered a Linnstrument last week from a distributor in Detroit, I was so excited!
The order was processing for days, the money left my account and after day 5, I called them and they had sold the last one, apparently 2 hours before my order… Beyond disappointed
It seems there are none left in the world, Roger do you have an ETA on a new batch please?
Edit: apologies, I’m in the wrong thread.
The order was processing for days, the money left my account and after day 5, I called them and they had sold the last one, apparently 2 hours before my order… Beyond disappointed
It seems there are none left in the world, Roger do you have an ETA on a new batch please?
Edit: apologies, I’m in the wrong thread.
-
- KVRAF
- 2721 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hi simmo75,
I'm sorry about the problem. Detroit Modular is a tiny store, run by honest people who are trying to offer a place where people can obtain some of the more creative music products. Like many tiny companies, they are probably overwhelmed and made an honest mistake with your order.
But the underlying problem is that due to the global chip shortage, I'm having trouble getting the chips I need to make more LinnStruments, which is limiting my production and making it hard to find any units available for sale.
Regarding when I'll have more, my online store states the following:
"SORRY-- SOLD OUT due to chip shortages. To be notified of new stock, sign up for the LinnStrument Newsletter. Best guess for availability at this time is mid to late May."
You can sign up for my LinnStrument Newsletter at the bottom of any page on my site.
Thank you for your interest in LinnStrument.
I'm sorry about the problem. Detroit Modular is a tiny store, run by honest people who are trying to offer a place where people can obtain some of the more creative music products. Like many tiny companies, they are probably overwhelmed and made an honest mistake with your order.
But the underlying problem is that due to the global chip shortage, I'm having trouble getting the chips I need to make more LinnStruments, which is limiting my production and making it hard to find any units available for sale.
Regarding when I'll have more, my online store states the following:
"SORRY-- SOLD OUT due to chip shortages. To be notified of new stock, sign up for the LinnStrument Newsletter. Best guess for availability at this time is mid to late May."
You can sign up for my LinnStrument Newsletter at the bottom of any page on my site.
Thank you for your interest in LinnStrument.
-
- KVRist
- 156 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
After extensive research (based on Roger's supported hardware guide and other sources), I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but curious if anyone has come across a keyboard synth that supports MPE *and* has good keybed and good onboard (as in near production quality) piano / ep
emulation? Or alternatively a standalone hardware synth that supports both MPE *and* same? *
Background: wanted a hardware synth and daughter needs a new keyboard, so mostly trying to kill two birds with one stone, (tried to talk her into a hydrasynth, and no, lol..) I'd also like her to have ability to explore sound design. Seems all the existing MPE keyboard synths are virtual analog only .. I don't think any of them have much in the way of onboard sampling but even then our (defunct, through no fault of manufacturer) Studiologic Sledge had only passable piano (and no MPE either, but very cool otherwise -- you can feed samples into synth pass).
The closest I came is it looks like someone hacked up a connection between Yamaha MODX and Searboard, but boy does it look like something I wouldn't want to waste time doing... (search for MPE in pdf)
http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductio ... _04_EN.pdf
Will probably end up with Studiologic Numa X which actually uses Audio Modelling and Camelot, but it doesn't even have polyphonic aftertouch and it doesn't have the knobs anyway, which is the part I want. Then at some point will look at buying something cheap like a Skulpt for a hardware synth.
[edit]: came across the details on Roger's page for Roland synths, that might be something to look at ... it looks like it isn't just the Integra but a number of keyboards including current ones (FA-07).
* Seems like a good business opportunity for someone!
emulation? Or alternatively a standalone hardware synth that supports both MPE *and* same? *
Background: wanted a hardware synth and daughter needs a new keyboard, so mostly trying to kill two birds with one stone, (tried to talk her into a hydrasynth, and no, lol..) I'd also like her to have ability to explore sound design. Seems all the existing MPE keyboard synths are virtual analog only .. I don't think any of them have much in the way of onboard sampling but even then our (defunct, through no fault of manufacturer) Studiologic Sledge had only passable piano (and no MPE either, but very cool otherwise -- you can feed samples into synth pass).
The closest I came is it looks like someone hacked up a connection between Yamaha MODX and Searboard, but boy does it look like something I wouldn't want to waste time doing... (search for MPE in pdf)
http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductio ... _04_EN.pdf
Will probably end up with Studiologic Numa X which actually uses Audio Modelling and Camelot, but it doesn't even have polyphonic aftertouch and it doesn't have the knobs anyway, which is the part I want. Then at some point will look at buying something cheap like a Skulpt for a hardware synth.
[edit]: came across the details on Roger's page for Roland synths, that might be something to look at ... it looks like it isn't just the Integra but a number of keyboards including current ones (FA-07).
* Seems like a good business opportunity for someone!
-
- KVRist
- 156 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
Yep! Looks like this one is a winner. They just came out with the Fantom-0 series which looks like a substantial improvement. Roger's page doesn't specifically say, but I'm going to bet that the same steps that worked on the previous fantom's should work for this. (I love that it is also a workstation, means my daughter will be able to record and mix without needing to hook up to computer.)MilesParker wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 8:49 pm [edit]: came across the details on Roger's page for Roland synths, that might be something to look at ... it looks like it isn't just the Integra but a number of keyboards including current ones (FA-07).
-
- KVRist
- 388 posts since 8 Jul, 2009
Certainly I'd say that even if you take MPE out of the equation, there isnt so much overlap between instruments that think of themselves as synths, and that level of piano sound quality. If you take the keyboard out of the equation then I wouldnt characterise hardware MPE-capable synths as mostly virtual analogue, there are a bunch of real analogue options and digital options that explore forms of synthesis that arent just virtual analogue.
I think the closest you might get in the the current era of the synth world as opposed to workstation world is the Waldorf Quantum/Iridium/Iridium keyboard, because those do support MPE now, have a bunch of different synthesis methods and also sampling, and you can mix and match these methods on a per oscillator basis. And the Iridium keyboard even has poly aftertouch in the built in keybed (only current modern alternative to the hydrasynth in that particular regard). But limited octave range of the Iridium keyboard may fall short, ie think hydrasynth number of keys not hydrasynth deluxe number of keys. And you'd still be taking a big risk as to what sort of piano sound quality you'd achieve and you'd likely have to build your own. Tools like SampleRobot are supposed to be getting export support for this family of synths soon, and then we might be more likely to see how far the sampling on this synth can reasonably be pushed and whether any 3rd parties come out with nice pianos etc. But certainly in the early days of the Quantum we were warned not to expect the sampling capabilities to live up to the sort of level offered by super dedicated multi-layered sampling beasts.
So yeah, from the piano perspective workstations make sense, so long as for your non-piano MPE needs you can fudge what effectively amounts to 'MPE support the hard way' via multiple synth instances each using a separate midi channel. Theres bound to be some trade-off between your competing desires, and which aspects you can afford the chosen instrument to fall short on. Dont be surprised if you cannot really fully kill both birds with one stone, eg workstations arent necessarily so popular these days with those who are really into the knob-twiddling hands on synth sound programming joys of life, and their manufacturers have tended not to acknowledge that the era of MPE even exists.
I think the closest you might get in the the current era of the synth world as opposed to workstation world is the Waldorf Quantum/Iridium/Iridium keyboard, because those do support MPE now, have a bunch of different synthesis methods and also sampling, and you can mix and match these methods on a per oscillator basis. And the Iridium keyboard even has poly aftertouch in the built in keybed (only current modern alternative to the hydrasynth in that particular regard). But limited octave range of the Iridium keyboard may fall short, ie think hydrasynth number of keys not hydrasynth deluxe number of keys. And you'd still be taking a big risk as to what sort of piano sound quality you'd achieve and you'd likely have to build your own. Tools like SampleRobot are supposed to be getting export support for this family of synths soon, and then we might be more likely to see how far the sampling on this synth can reasonably be pushed and whether any 3rd parties come out with nice pianos etc. But certainly in the early days of the Quantum we were warned not to expect the sampling capabilities to live up to the sort of level offered by super dedicated multi-layered sampling beasts.
So yeah, from the piano perspective workstations make sense, so long as for your non-piano MPE needs you can fudge what effectively amounts to 'MPE support the hard way' via multiple synth instances each using a separate midi channel. Theres bound to be some trade-off between your competing desires, and which aspects you can afford the chosen instrument to fall short on. Dont be surprised if you cannot really fully kill both birds with one stone, eg workstations arent necessarily so popular these days with those who are really into the knob-twiddling hands on synth sound programming joys of life, and their manufacturers have tended not to acknowledge that the era of MPE even exists.
-
- KVRist
- 156 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
Realized last night that the instructions on Roger's page are only intended for the older 2000s and before Roland synths ... but it seems like it should be "easy" enough to setup a similar thing ...
viewtopic.php?f=263&t=532674&sid=e5c5b6 ... &start=291
... I've got to think that Roland must be headed in this direction and will probably have real MPE sooner rather than later. They already explicitly support it with the ZenBeats app.
https://www.roland.com/ca/products/rc_zenbeats/
That's not on "the list" yet, but I assume someone will try it and let Roger know if I don't get there first. So it seems like Roland eco-system may not be a bad choice out of the big 3 of the keyboard world. (It's too bad that studiologic isn't there because I love their deign and sound ethos.)
The "plug-out" stuff Roland is doing is also super interesting as well as their boutique models (and other big makers seem to be moving in same direction).. in general that implies to me is that Hardware synths / Keyboards are really just becoming different sized boxes with different combinations of knobs and controls that map to some software implementation. (Or generic collections of knobs and pads like the MC-707.)
Now, I'll share my million dollar idea (as in kickstarter, spend a million dollars and years of sweat developing it and then get blown out of the water the next day when Behringer builds one just like it!): a "morphbox" with hardware configurability (basically, you can move knobs and other controls around) that I could load a plug-out into, giving me a stand-alone fiddle block that could basically emulate (or rather "be") anything I wanted it to be. Imagine having that alongside a Linnstrument, it really would be all you would ever need. (Attach a farily simple mixer, recorder and some kind of elegant MPC like sequence/song assembler for a full DAW-less setup.)
Cool times to live in!
viewtopic.php?f=263&t=532674&sid=e5c5b6 ... &start=291
... I've got to think that Roland must be headed in this direction and will probably have real MPE sooner rather than later. They already explicitly support it with the ZenBeats app.
https://www.roland.com/ca/products/rc_zenbeats/
That's not on "the list" yet, but I assume someone will try it and let Roger know if I don't get there first. So it seems like Roland eco-system may not be a bad choice out of the big 3 of the keyboard world. (It's too bad that studiologic isn't there because I love their deign and sound ethos.)
For sure, I think I dumbed my point down too much. Just searching for a way to distinguish the knobby/fiddly synths from the black box style.SteveElbows wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:03 am Certainly I'd say that even if you take MPE out of the equation, there isnt so much overlap between instruments that think of themselves as synths, and that level of piano sound quality. If you take the keyboard out of the equation then I wouldnt characterise hardware MPE-capable synths as mostly virtual analogue, there are a bunch of real analogue options and digital options that explore forms of synthesis that arent just virtual analogue.
As mentioned, we had the Studiologic Sledge which uses the Waldorf engine. It was just super cool to play with, you could take the Piano samples, filter them, hook it up to LFO, do the same thing with your own, etc.. but I have to say that the Piano / E Piano / Wurli were fun, but certainly didn't come close to passing as the real thing. My 11 year old daughter wasn't satisfied, and my 13 year old boy who insists that Jazz must only be played on acoustic instruments turned up his nose completely, lol. Anyway the waldorf keys are way out of my price range.I think the closest you might get in the the current era of the synth world as opposed to workstation world is the Waldorf Quantum/Iridium/Iridium keyboard, because those do support MPE now, have a bunch of different synthesis methods and also sampling, and you can mix and match these methods on a per oscillator basis. And the Iridium keyboard even has poly aftertouch in the built in keybed (only current modern alternative to the hydrasynth in that particular regard).
It is interesting to see some convergence happening now, exemplified by some interesting things that Roland is doing. With ZenCore they have effectively completely virtualized their hardware and software stack. That is you play Jupiter patches on their RD-88, and you can play SuperNatural Piano sounds on their Juno-X. But to me where this leads is that I think we have our final answer to the "are hardware synths better" question, when -- leaving aside analog -- they have literally the exact same sound quality, i.e. they aren't "emulators", they are "implementers". (I assume, perhaps there are some latency benefits or whatever not to mention startup time, power consumption, etc.. for DSP approaches.) Or perhaps this doesn't apply to Cobalt8 or Hydrasynth, maybe they have tricks up their sleeves that can't be duplicated in software.SteveElbows wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 3:03 amDont be surprised if you cannot really fully kill both birds with one stone, eg workstations arent necessarily so popular these days with those who are really into the knob-twiddling hands on synth sound programming joys of life, and their manufacturers have tended not to acknowledge that the era of MPE even exists.
The "plug-out" stuff Roland is doing is also super interesting as well as their boutique models (and other big makers seem to be moving in same direction).. in general that implies to me is that Hardware synths / Keyboards are really just becoming different sized boxes with different combinations of knobs and controls that map to some software implementation. (Or generic collections of knobs and pads like the MC-707.)
Now, I'll share my million dollar idea (as in kickstarter, spend a million dollars and years of sweat developing it and then get blown out of the water the next day when Behringer builds one just like it!): a "morphbox" with hardware configurability (basically, you can move knobs and other controls around) that I could load a plug-out into, giving me a stand-alone fiddle block that could basically emulate (or rather "be") anything I wanted it to be. Imagine having that alongside a Linnstrument, it really would be all you would ever need. (Attach a farily simple mixer, recorder and some kind of elegant MPC like sequence/song assembler for a full DAW-less setup.)
Cool times to live in!
-
- KVRist
- 388 posts since 8 Jul, 2009
Thanks for the zenbeats info, I will check that one out.
By the way the Waldorf stuff in the sledge isnt the same as the engines in the Quantum/Iridium, different era of stuff, but since I have no Sledge experience I cannot really compare.
By the way the Waldorf stuff in the sledge isnt the same as the engines in the Quantum/Iridium, different era of stuff, but since I have no Sledge experience I cannot really compare.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 9543 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
Virsyn Tera Pro (iOS) is now also supporting MPE. 9.99 at the moment in the store…
-
- KVRAF
- 2721 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
I've added it to my Recommended Sounds page.
-
- KVRer
- 3 posts since 19 Apr, 2022
AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.
Phase Plant just added MPE support: https://kilohearts.com/products/phase_plant (https://kilohearts.com/products/phase_plant)Just played around with it for a bit and it's really nice. Very visual and quick to map MPE inputs to anything.
-
- KVRist
- 156 posts since 5 Jan, 2022
Love the name. How does it compare to say Arturia Pigments?
-
- KVRer
- 3 posts since 19 Apr, 2022
If you're into modular synths, I think it compares really well. I can build up a patch really quickly and see the waveforms coming out of each component at all times. For MPE, I really appreciate how easy it is to set complex response curves and see my raw inputs next to the curve outputs all at the same time. You can modulate anything with anything else and the new update makes it really easy to modulate modulators without cluttering up your patch.
I haven't messed with Pigments since I got my Linnstrument so I don't know how nice it is for MPE patches, but I demoed Pigments at the same time as Phase Plant and ruled out Pigments pretty quickly. Not because it was bad but because Phase Plant matched the way I think a little better.
It has a free trial so it's definitely worth checking out.
I haven't messed with Pigments since I got my Linnstrument so I don't know how nice it is for MPE patches, but I demoed Pigments at the same time as Phase Plant and ruled out Pigments pretty quickly. Not because it was bad but because Phase Plant matched the way I think a little better.
It has a free trial so it's definitely worth checking out.
-
- KVRAF
- 2721 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
I've just added Kilohearts Phase Plant to my recommended Sounds page.
-
- KVRAF
- 3017 posts since 8 Jun, 2018
also Rob Papen Predator 3 and KarmaFX Synth Modular 2 have MPE support.
Primoridal Music: sadà\exposadà - Indusrial & Expanding Your Mind Hurts: Sound Brut