Behringer UB-Xa Synthesizer (OB-Xa clone)

[WatchTheGuitar]

I hope they release a module version and manage a lower price point

Think I’m right in saying Behringer have yet to bring out options for both desktop and keys on any of their models, but the Pro-800 (Prophet 600 clone) seems to be coming out eventually as a poly desktop even if this doesn’t.

They have the Deepmind, if you don't mind it not being a strict clone.

Ah yes, of course. The RD-8 mk ii (and the 2 special edition 2600s) has given me hope they’ll revisit models and maybe we’ll get options at a later date. I’d really love it if they found a way to add MIDI control to controls like Roland did with their boutique clones, but obviously that was helped by being based on the ACB tech over original hardware.

[AdvancedFollower]

Of course. And also need to record everything to audio and other disadvantages. This is why, for me, to buy a hardware synth, it must have also an advantage in sound over plugins to balance the pros and cons of having a hardware synth.

The question is, what can they do to make the sound "better" than plugins, which are already 98-99% of the way there? I mean the OB-Xa has a certain sound. Obsession already has that sound. In order for UB-Xa to sound even *better* than both, it would need to sound different from both the plugin and the original hardware.

[pixel85]

Of course. And also need to record everything to audio and other disadvantages. This is why, for me, to buy a hardware synth, it must have also an advantage in sound over plugins to balance the pros and cons of having a hardware synth.

The question is, what can they do to make the sound "better" than plugins, which are already 98-99% of the way there? I mean the OB-Xa has a certain sound. Obsession already has that sound. In order for UB-Xa to sound even *better* than both, it would need to sound different from both the plugin and the original hardware.

I'll tell you when I'll hear it It's not like we reached the threshold of sound/synthesis possibilities. So far they managed to do it with Bodyssey so they can do it with other synths to It doesn't need to be an Oberheim clone necessarily.

[EvilDragon]

Of course. And also need to record everything to audio and other disadvantages. This is why, for me, to buy a hardware synth, it must have also an advantage in sound over plugins to balance the pros and cons of having a hardware synth.

The question is, what can they do to make the sound "better" than plugins, which are already 98-99% of the way there? I mean the OB-Xa has a certain sound. Obsession already has that sound. In order for UB-Xa to sound even *better* than both, it would need to sound different from both the plugin and the original hardware.

They can make it not produce aliasing no matter how you set the parameters. OBsession is absolutely great, but it CAN be pushed to produce digital artifacts. Edge cases, yes, but they exist in the plugin. But not the analog hardware.

[lfm]

Of course. And also need to record everything to audio and other disadvantages. This is why, for me, to buy a hardware synth, it must have also an advantage in sound over plugins to balance the pros and cons of having a hardware synth.

The question is, what can they do to make the sound "better" than plugins, which are already 98-99% of the way there? I mean the OB-Xa has a certain sound. Obsession already has that sound. In order for UB-Xa to sound even *better* than both, it would need to sound different from both the plugin and the original hardware.

The obvious is that analog filters are really hard to replicate as digital.

I have one example where Tim Shoebridge tested Iridium and Quantum, which is said to be big brother and having analog filters compared to Iridium which is digital.

Shoebridge said
- they sound almost identical

but as he played it was way different plain sounding in Iridium. But he got Iridium as a loan and probably did not want to bash it right out.

I suspect all attempts from Roland to replicate Jupiter 8 in System 8 and Jupiter X will show the same thing.

There are more synths still making the effort with analog filters but just about everything else digital.

Many VA synths often have a lot of effects to cover up of the core tone. Exception in my case is Nordlead2X, where they spent all development on the core sound. But starting to push filters and resonance it does not compare to Prologue or even DeepMind.

[Vortifex]

Edited

[AdvancedFollower]

The obvious is that analog filters are really hard to replicate as digital.

I have one example where Tim Shoebridge tested Iridium and Quantum, which is said to be big brother and having analog filters compared to Iridium which is digital.

Shoebridge said
- they sound almost identical

but as he played it was way different plain sounding in Iridium. But he got Iridium as a loan and probably did not want to bash it right out.

I suspect all attempts from Roland to replicate Jupiter 8 in System 8 and Jupiter X will show the same thing.

There are more synths still making the effort with analog filters but just about everything else digital.

Many VA synths often have a lot of effects to cover up of the core tone. Exception in my case is Nordlead2X, where they spent all development on the core sound. But starting to push filters and resonance it does not compare to Prologue or even DeepMind.

All fair points, but I think there are a small but growing number of plugins that really nail the sound of analog, including the filters. FWIW I have a few analog synths so I have some reference. Sometimes I prefer to use my "real" analog synths, other times I prefer something like Obsession, Jup 8v4, Repro 5 etc. The choice has more to do with the character of the different synths (VST or hardware) or specific features, rather than what kind of technology they use.

I think the final limitation for digital is audio-rate stuff. That quickly gets extremely CPU-intensive and the resolution limitations begin to show. Heck, even my SE-02, which has VCO's and a VCF, suffers from digital artifacts when doing some Xmod stuff, because the envelopes and LFO are digital and not high-resolution enough.

[Urs]

Well, apparently the modern industrial scale recreations of vintage hardware are further off from the real deal than properly modelled software. I suspect the old PCB and thru hole parts had all those nice desirable temperature issues that modern machine soldered SMT parts simply don't. Not only did they get rid of the undesired artefacts (e.g. noise and ground hum), but they also lost the character on the way. I think it's much easier to capture all that in software than it is to try and reproduce early transistor technology on current silicon dies.

[AnX]

Who said germans don't have a sense of humour

[lfm]

Well, apparently the modern industrial scale recreations of vintage hardware are further off from the real deal than properly modelled software. I suspect the old PCB and thru hole parts had all those nice desirable temperature issues that modern machine soldered SMT parts simply don't. Not only did they get rid of the undesired artefacts (e.g. noise and ground hum), but they also lost the character on the way. I think it's much easier to capture all that in software than it is to try and reproduce early transistor technology on current silicon dies.

Yes, I'm sure you can model hum and noise, real well.

"Properly modelled", yeah, there is plenty of those going around.
That is the "holy grail", really if you can do that.

Some at the time college kids, did some math to model analog and later formed Softube!!!!!
You can build a business entierly over this.
Fender also licensed that for some time, I believe for amp modelling.

Simul Analog later became Overloud, I think it was.

I think Magix Vandal also is modelled circuits if I'm not mistaken.

There is gain and losses doing it "properly".

Roland did System-8 with ACB(analog circuit behavior), I think it was called.
But polyphony was very limited due to cpu used.
Some state that this sound better though than the later Zen technology they have in Jupiter X and Juno X and such, but Zen allow plenty more voices.

My Nordlead 2X some state sound too clean, it is 96k inside it compared to predessor Nordlead 2 which were 48k.

Many hardware emulating Waves plugins have button for "Analog" which add noise and hum.

I analog world though, hum and noise also affect the circuit behavior itself. It's overlaid everywhere in signal path.

The last with analog Roland did I think was JDXa, combined with digital section with Integra stuff. Seems to me they are not going back to analog reissues.

Arturia started as I recall with software emulations, but went more into hardware anyway. And I bless them for that and their Polybrute.

Those that sit on "properly modelled" are rich now and can enjoy their early retirement, I think. At least if they apply to desired applications.

[lfm]

Andertons have released a new video demonstrating the synth and the reaction seems mostly negative. I thought the synth itself actually sounds nice but I don't think the demo was very well done, and I wonder if there might have been recording issues:

I don't know if edited until I downloaded, but I heard not one negative comment anywhere. Demo spanned a lot of features, I think, some very unique.

Demos with factory presets are usually dull, IMO. Very, very few of factory stuff I ever use on any synth.

Those that care to make own presets are usually better, like BoBeats.

Thanks for link

[Vortifex]

Edited

[lfm]

I don't know if edited until I downloaded, but I heard not one negative comment anywhere.

Probably because you didn't read the comments

That's right, I just downloaded url.

There is always a crowd that bash anything Behringer do.

[chk071]

Here are some more sound demos:

[vurt]

Here are some more sound demos:

not even close! didn't play jump.