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noiseboyuk wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 10:45 am
Trensharo wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 9:01 pmLol. No. Media Composer is basically Video Editing Photoshop. Again, Premiere Pro predominates in market segments Avid literally ignores. Where Media Composer is predominant, its stranglehold is even stronger than Pro Tools in studios because no other competitors are competitive with them in multiple niches.

Have you ever used Adobe's collaboration services and compared with Avid's, or had to deal with how fragile premiere pro becomes with feature film-level projects?

Media Composer is the most stable video editor i have ever seem. It's practically an enterprise software application. Premiere Pro is anything but.
All I know is in TV Premiere Pro is now very common. And a quick search online shows it's not uncommon in features too (just noticed Everything Everywhere was Premiere).

On one show I worked on the director estimated they halved their edit time in Premiere for season two (Season One was on Avid).

I don't use either, no skin in the game, just reporting what I hear and see.
Yes. And some news stations used vegas pro. Not sure what the point is. Media Composer dominates its niche. You keep trying to steer away from that. You're failing to address that while manufacturing a more favorable scenario for yourself.

I didn't say other solutions were not used. I said Avid dominates the niche it targets, by a very large margin.

People here tend to fall into the trap of thinking a product is failing [or waning] simply because they (and people like them) do not use it. There is also a strong sentiment of rooting for the underdog, particularly when the leaders are offering higher cost products, and moves to a subscription system triggers people. However, sometimes the company developing the product simply does not care about you. You may not be their target market.

Companies like Adobe and Avid are able to survive largely because they are able to identify their target points and hit them; not simply caving because a ton of people who won't even buy their product are complaining on the internet about their marketing strategies. Your posts are a brilliant example of that.

"No skin in the game," but lets perpetuate hearsay on the internet!

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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Trensharo wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:29 pmY [snipped]
Oh forgive, you're one of THOSE people. Changes the rules on every post and condescends the other.

I'll just leave you to it.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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Despite that being such a blatant troll response, I'm still going to give the benefit of the doubt with a response...

How am I changing the rules on every post, when I write something only for you to substitute another point and respond to that?

Lol.

What?

Clearly, I am speaking of Avid's domination of the feature film and "Hollywood" markets. Those are basically non-fickle enterprise markets, and they bring in the bucks. Avid is heavily used in Broadcast, as well.

We have enough testimonials from professional editors using Premiere Pro for those types of products. In many cases, they required heavy support from Adobe to make it work. Most people want more options. Even when you're fine with the solution you're using, there is always a sense of discomfort when you have NO alternatives. Options are good, and they actually keep developers/companies honest. However, Avid has some technological advantages in the workflow department that competitors have yet to match - or even come close to, in some cases. This is allowing them to corner that market segment, which actually makes the product very predictable in terms of yield (since the chances of large amounts of customers being poached is... fairly small).

The result of this ^^^ is Avid feeling very little pressure to attack other market segments, which is why they have been so content to ignore them to a large degree. This is mirrored with Pro Tools. While DAWs like Studio One, Cubase and others are developing out in all directions trying to appeal to any and every type of potential customer, Avid has been fairly consistent in targeting its core market segment and investing minimally in catering to others.

You're completely ignoring that and talking about Premiere Pro as if it is even competition for Avid within that market, while actually referring to different market segments. Most people here know what Avid is, and what markets they target. Avid is not trying to go after the market segments where Premiere Pro is used heavily, and Premiere Pro is heavily scaffolded by the Hobbyist/Prosumer/YouTuber markets where Avid is practically absent.

Without those market segments, Premiere Pro wouldn't even be a viable product. Subscriptions is what actually allowed Premiere Pro to grow its market share as a product, because most people that use it were not going to pay the $799+ price tag it commanded when it was a perpetually licensed product. This is a strategy that Adobe adopted because it made sense to them, and they do good market research. Avid does the same.

Why waste tons of time, money and resources developing for, marketing to and supporting minimal amounts of users outside of your core market segment when you can simply ignore them and focus towards the places that are actually giving you almost all of your business?

Please explain these "rules changes" to other people who will read this thread...

And I stand by what I state. People on these forums tend to put way too much weight on what they want, while completely ignoring the fact that these are businesses and sometimes, they don't matter to those businesses due to being outside of their core market segment.

If the product isn't for you, then get one that is.

But, don't pollute the internet with ignorant posts about a product when you don't even use them (and probably never have, in the case of Media Composer). In that case, you have no useful information to offer anyone. No one appreciates worthless bloviating.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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Its obvious that Avid is not interested in small studios. I work with ProTools since more than 20 years in all kinds of jobs, but never owned it for my own work. It still is one of the most intuitive tools around, but dealing with Avid/Digidesign in a professional manner always was a nightmare. You have to pay extra to report bugs, I mean deal breaking bugs. It takes years to get them fixed. Worst customer service imaginable unless you pay on top of the subscription. They always built in functions which would break the tool with the next OS upgrade. In the early days Waves had the same attitude, but they learned their lesson and can serve the big and the long tail successfully. I can‘t predict if that move will kill ProTools in the long run, they simply abandon the opportunity to lead small customers to owning ProTools. They will not be able to force those customers into a subscription, they simply loose them… I have no idea how this can be a good move. Its way more difficult to find new customers than keeping old ones…
That move will put the small studios out of the game, especially the new young engineers, they are forced to use something else. They will not stop using those alternatives when they grow bigger… Its too much hassle…
I guess those concepts work, because students already get brain washed with these tools in apprenticeship…

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By the end of 2022, all major software developers will go subscription only.
It is a very successful model after all and makes a lot of sense for users and developers alike. Currently I have subscription to Reason Studios and Roland Cloud Ultimate and enjoying them so far.
Hoping Steinberg is going that way as well soon - latest Cubase 12 is almost there with the new dongle free authorisation process

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Atlatnesiti wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:25 am By the end of 2022, all major software developers will go subscription only.
It is a very successful model after all and makes a lot of sense for users and developers alike. Currently I have subscription to Reason Studios and Roland Cloud Ultimate and enjoying them so far.
Hoping Steinberg is going that way as well soon - latest Cubase 12 is almost there with the new dongle free authorisation process
LOL, ok, I'm a subscription hater and a believer in the trend, but that's not going to happen, AT ALL. Quoted to revisit in a new years celebration of dumbass posts. 1/1/23

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Atlatnesiti wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:25 am By the end of 2022, all major software developers will go subscription only.
please define 'major software developer.' you know, for future veracity checks without any moved goalposts.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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nvm

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whyterabbyt wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:22 am
Atlatnesiti wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:25 am By the end of 2022, all major software developers will go subscription only.
please define 'major software developer.' you know, for future veracity checks without any moved goalposts.
Steinberg, Ableton, Roland, ProTools, Reasonstudios, Bitwig, etc;

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Ah, so the list of 'major software developers' is basically just those who have already more or less done this, as expected. How unexpected that you actually included one which hasnt.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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By the way, a list of names isnt actually a definition.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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whyterabbyt wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm By the way, a list of names isnt actually a definition.
Well he did say "etc."

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ghettosynth wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:46 pm
whyterabbyt wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 2:43 pm By the way, a list of names isnt actually a definition.
Well he did say "etc."
'et.c.' as in 'Roland, and Roland printers, and Roland milling machines, and Roland plotters, and Roland vinyl cutters, and Roland engravers', then, I guess.
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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whyterabbyt wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:22 am
Atlatnesiti wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:25 am By the end of 2022, all major software developers will go subscription only.
please define 'major software developer.' you know, for future veracity checks without any moved goalposts.
I only see trouble if it's sub only. As long as there's choice I don't care.

k

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Well, at least Reason studios stopped their sales for perpetual licenses. Which does not make the subs look like a good deal at all. Well, its just a lost potential customer…
In the end its a very good cure for GAS…

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