CLAP, the Plugin Format (of the future?)

[Held]

Well, it is, if noone picks up the work/understands the code, or whatever.

Again, that's not a problem. Once the standard is finalized, no one needs to develop it any further. VST2 hasn't been changed for years and it still works great. The only reason people can't use it anymore is because Steinberg doesn't hand out any new licenses.

But, let's not speculate. Let's not speculate about what Steinberg does, or does not do with their SDK either. If you take a look at how long the VST2 SDK was available, after it already had been discontinued, then I don't see any reason for such angst.

No need to speculate. It's clear as day how Steinberg (ab)uses its power to shove VST3 down developers throats. VST2 was working perfectly fine, but new developers aren't allowed to use it anymore. That will never happen with CLAP.

[chk071]

Well, it is, if noone picks up the work/understands the code, or whatever.

Again, that's not a problem. Once the standard is finalized, no one needs to develop it any further. VST2 hasn't been changed for years and it still works great. The only reason people can't use it anymore is because Steinberg doesn't hand out any new licenses.

Yeah, but, developers with a VST2 license can still use it.

No need to speculate. It's clear as day how Steinberg (ab)uses its power to shove VST3 down developers throats.

Well, well. Now you sound like Linus Torvalds.

Anyway, I'm all for seeing how CLAP works out. It's just that I don't quite understand why developers have to be persuaded (by users) to support it. Again, that reminds of the missionary behavior of most Linux users.

[Held]

Anyway, I'm all for seeing how CLAP works out. It's just that I don't quite understand why developers have to be persuaded (by users) to support it. Again, that reminds of the missionary behavior of most Linux users.

And I don't understand why developers have to be persuaded (by users) not to support it. If Vojtech doesn't want to support it, that's fine. But let's try to keep our arguments accurate.

If CLAP is worth supporting is debatable, but claiming it doesn't have any benefits over VST3 is just wrong.

Well, well. Now you sound like Linus Torvalds.

Have you talked to developers about how the feel about VST3? Do all developers who didn't want to switch to VST3 sound like Linus to you?

But if that's the level you want to have this conversation on, I'm out.

[chk071]

And I don't understand why developers have to be persuaded (by users) not to support it.

Where exactly have I told Vojtech not to support CLAP?

It's his decision. Who would I be to tell him what to do? (Not that I could do that anyway.)

This thread exists because someone tried to persuade Melda to support CLAP, not because I or anyone else persuaded him not to do so. Get real.

[Held]

This thread exists because someone tried to persuade Melda to support CLAP, not because I or anyone else persuaded him not to do so. Get real.

If you consider that persuading, then you need to get real.

I was wondering if Melda might play with the idea of supporting it too.

[chk071]

It's a nice way of persuasion.

The sheer fact that we're discussing for two pages again says everything.

[Held]

It's a nice way of persuasion.

What would you call this, then?

They just don't understand that it will be yet another format to support, nothing else. There's no benefit except for more work, and more cluster.

The sheer fact that we're discussing for two pages again says everything.

Why did you feel the need to keep repeating that CLAP is useless. What does that say?

[chk071]

What would you call this, then?

An opinion. And a reaction on the topic.

Again, I didn't create this topic. And, I didn't try to persuade Vojtech in any way. I agreed with him, actually, after his reaction on the topic.

You seem to be very motivated. I think I was 100% right about the term "missionary".

[Held]

You seem to be very motivated. I think I was 100% right about the term "missionary".

I'm bored, mostly. At least I made the effort to inform myself on the subject. You seem to know nothing about CLAP, yet are convinced you know enough to have an opinion. What are you trying to be. "Anti-missionary"?

[chk071]

Well, this isn't leading anywhere, is it?

[Hexspa]

Well, this isn't leading anywhere, is it?

It led to your comment

Let it go guys, just accept that the minute a human being hits 'reply', their IQ goes down 14 points.

[masitito]

Let it go guys, just accept that the minute a human being hits 'reply', their IQ goes down 14 points.

[] Peter:H []

At first contact with CLAP I thought the same way like those saying "What!? another API. Why?"...

But then I came across the current nightlies of Surge XTs CLAP Build and Bitwig 4.3 betas.
A CLAP Surge XT allows to use a.) Bitwigs Per-Voice-Modulators AND b.) it supports Bitwigs Voice-Stacking.

a.) In Bitwig Modulators like an LFO or an ADSR can be placed in any of the modulator slots of a synth and modulate any parameter, e.g. the filter of a synth. Up till now the modulators where able to act on a per-incoming-note basis only for Bitwigs built in synths and FX. For 3rd party synths that was not possible. But that now changed with Surge XT Clap Nightly. Add an Bitwig LFO into a Slot, set it to "Per Voice2 and enjoy.

b.) As with a.) Bitwig supports voice stacking (kind of unisono but way cooler, versatile and powerfull) for each of it's synth from outside. Voice Stacking means, that for each incoming key Bitwig creates up to 5 voices for you, like as if you just used 5 instances of the same synth. You can simply switch voice stacking on in Bitwigs channel inspector AND use the "voice stack" modulator to modulate each and any parameter you want on per voice basis, e.g.pan, cutoff, resonance.
With Surge XT Clap it works now the same way. Just switch on 5 voices and modulate any parameter per voice you like.

So I came form ignorrant to full believer in just the recent few weeks when I actually tried out what CLAP means rather than theoritically discussing about it. But the thing that is essential - the full potential you can only discover with DAW + Synth. If you lack a DAW then CLAP is just like any other API for you.

[Hexspa]

At first contact with CLAP I thought the same way like those saying "What!? another API. Why?"...

But then I came across the current nightlies of Surge XTs CLAP Build and Bitwig 4.3 betas.
A CLAP Surge XT allows to use a.) Bitwigs Per-Voice-Modulators AND b.) it supports Bitwigs Voice-Stacking.

a.) In Bitwig Modulators like an LFO or an ADSR can be placed in any of the modulator slots of a synth and modulate any parameter, e.g. the filter of a synth. Up till now the modulators where able to act on a per-incoming-note basis only for Bitwigs built in synths and FX. For 3rd party synths that was not possible. But that now changed with Surge XT Clap Nightly. Add an Bitwig LFO into a Slot, set it to "Per Voice2 and enjoy.

b.) As with a.) Bitwig supports voice stacking (kind of unisono but way cooler, versatile and powerfull) for each of it's synth from outside. Voice Stacking means, that for each incoming key Bitwig creates up to 5 voices for you, like as if you just used 5 instances of the same synth. You can simply switch voice stacking on in Bitwigs channel inspector AND use the "voice stack" modulator to modulate each and any parameter you want on per voice basis, e.g.pan, cutoff, resonance.
With Surge XT Clap it works now the same way. Just switch on 5 voices and modulate any parameter per voice you like.

So I came form ignorrant to full believer in just the recent few weeks when I actually tried out what CLAP means rather than theoritically discussing about it. But the thing that is essential - the full potential you can only discover with DAW + Synth. If you lack a DAW then CLAP is just like any other API for you.

Ahh don't tell me this. I was all set with Melda and reaper but now I'm going to learn Surge as a backup to MSF. Also, reaper has weird automation so I've been side-eying bitwig. Now you tell me they work together well. All I wanted to do was make music and I've become a software slave.

[operator]

All I wanted to do was make music and I've become a software slave.

U-he also releases some synths in CLAP in the very near future --> ca. 2 weeks (Hive, ACE,...)

I wouldn´t quit Reaper that fast... have a little patients. It seems to me that Schwa (a Reaper Dev) is a big contributer to the CLAP development (e.g. at an early stage he made a testing Host to test the CLAP plugins... )

So I look forward how CLAP will influence the Reaper development in the near future (maybe we will get some Bitwig style modulators??? Seems a logical next step to me... but don´t take me to serious, I am just speculating here. Or better should I say: daydreaming...

Surge is a fantastic synth if you ask me, so there will be no time wasted learning it on a sunday afternoon. It has some really funky Oscillator types which I have such fun with when I use it (rarely). And learning Bitwig is also no waste of time, I have it as secondary DAW too (beside of Reaper).

One for producing music and one for playing/listening music...