I want to use MUtility for mid side encoding and decoding, but I don't understand the terminology in the menu choices. I've never seen it expressed that way.
Can anyone explain how to encode and decode for mid and side so I can split the signal?
Thanks.
MUtility mid side encoding
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- KVRAF
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
I don't know what the coder parameter is - never noticed it. But open the panel labelled Toolbar and I think you'll find what you're looking for. I'm not at my DAW or I'd provide a bit more detail.
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- KVRian
- 965 posts since 12 May, 2019
I don't know how to do it within one plugin. The text that follows seems right to me but it might not be right. For whatever reason, when I sum everything back together, it doesn't sound the same. Anyway, you can try it in the mean time:
Send the stereo track to both a mid return and a side return. On the mid, use MUtility to set both Panorama Left and Panorama Right to Center. For the side return, check the 'invert right channel' button. Turn down the return tracks by 3dB then put whatever processing you want on each of them. Finally, to return to stereo just duplicate the MUtility you have first on the side return and put it last. Now send the return and sides track to a new stereo track. Make sure to not send the original nor return tracks to the master - only the last stereo track should be audible.
Traditionally, the mid channel is panned left and the sides right. This way you can use a stereo processor to manipulate both. However, if you do that then I wouldn't know how to undo the polarity shift of the side channel.
Send the stereo track to both a mid return and a side return. On the mid, use MUtility to set both Panorama Left and Panorama Right to Center. For the side return, check the 'invert right channel' button. Turn down the return tracks by 3dB then put whatever processing you want on each of them. Finally, to return to stereo just duplicate the MUtility you have first on the side return and put it last. Now send the return and sides track to a new stereo track. Make sure to not send the original nor return tracks to the master - only the last stereo track should be audible.
Traditionally, the mid channel is panned left and the sides right. This way you can use a stereo processor to manipulate both. However, if you do that then I wouldn't know how to undo the polarity shift of the side channel.
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- KVRAF
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Whoops ... you're quite right. I was getting this mixed up with the LR/MS converter modules in MXXX.Macaroni wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:53 pm The Toolbar settings are for different playback options only - not encoding and decoding.
But I finally had a few minutes to revisit this and came away far more puzzled than when I started. The CODER panel should do something along these lines (as the OP thought). The help says:
Coder panel contains operations for encoding and decoding the audio signal between different representations.
And the Mode parameter help says:
Mode defines type of the encoding to perform. It lets you convert the input into mid/side representation, so that you can use it in other plugins for example. It also lets you audition the mid, side, left or right channels.
So what do the choices for mode mean? There is no mention of mid/side in the list of options. And what does (for example) "Left+Right -> Stereo" mean? That makes no sense. Does anyone have a clue as to what's going on here? Is this just a case of badly worded help text and/or poorly chosen drop-down selection names?
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- KVRian
- 1282 posts since 3 Jan, 2020
Mono+Stereo is what some people call Mid+Side. If you use that mode, the mid signal should be on the left channel and the side signal should be on the right channel.
I have no idea why they aren't called Mid+Side, though.
I have no idea why they aren't called Mid+Side, though.
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- KVRAF
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Yeah, I was speculating that was the case but didn't have time to devise a test to validate the matter. "Left+Right -> Stereo" is particularly misleading, not to mention it making no sense. This whole list needs to be revised - what was the problem with "mid" and "side" in the first place?Held wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:39 pm Mono+Stereo is what some people call Mid+Side. If you use that mode, the mid signal should be on the left channel and the side signal should be on the right channel.
I have no idea why they aren't called Mid+Side, though.
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- KVRian
- 710 posts since 7 May, 2002 from Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I prefer the more accurate (though unfortunately less used) terms Sum and Difference.
TDR plugins use these terms.
https://www.justmastering.com/article-m ... -part1.phpThe mid channel is actually the sum of the left and right channels together (L+R)....
.... The side channel is simply the difference between the left and right channels (L-R).
TDR plugins use these terms.
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- KVRAF
- 1759 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA
Actually, I don't think "sum" and "difference" are more accurate. A round trip requires either the LR->MS conversion or the MS->LR conversion to have a divide by 2 (more practically in term of CPU usage, a multiplication by 0.5). In fact if we multiply by the inverse of the square root of 2, the LR->MS conversion and the MS->LR conversion formulas turn out to be identical. I'll stick with "mid" and "side". 