CLAP 1.0 betas for ACE, Diva, Hive, MFM 2.5

[Koldunya]

Personally, I prefer the fixed directory for VST3 over having to make sure that every VST2 installation ends up in the correct directory.

I'd be happy enough if an install path was agreed upon and used for every installer by default, but people could change it if they wanted to for some reason. Everyone is happy.

Personally I liked VST3's way of a fixed path as well, because I got so f'ing tired of changing install paths for VST2 installs because X developer wanted to put their plugin in Y path. And then every time I go to do an install/update, I have to carefully make sure I put it in the same spot to overwrite the existing one. It is tedious as hell and just felt asinine. I would start to get frustrated with every dev that somehow managed to choose some weird ass path no one else had, too lol. I guess I could set my DAW to look in all these different folders but that's just messy and makes removing plugins a pita, too.

AUs all go to the same spot and the world didn't implode, not sure what the fuss is about CLAP doing the same thing it and VST3 do.

[vertibration]

Huge mistake forcing an arbitrary install location.

Your preference is not everyone's preference. If you ask our support team for instance, they'll tell you how much less work they have since we made our installers more restrictive.

Your preference is not everyone's preference.

So you are more concerned about how much work your support team has than how much work your paid customers have to do in order to workaround your arbitrary install path or how much freedom your customers or potential customers have?

Ok whatever. That tells me all I need to know.

So from the end users perspective we've gone from Steinberg telling us where to install VST3 to you telling us where to install CLAP. That's not progress in my opinion.

I have had a custom install folder for my VST2 plugins for over 20 years and have over 600 plugins installed. If you're saying I'll only have to move a .dll "once or twice" a year (that may or may not break the installation depending on the developer and support files etc) then you're saying that the CLAP format is not going to be popular enough to even concern myself with so I'll just wish you good luck and move on.......

Dont be a detractor. A lot of work has gone into this, and it will be a benefit for many. What have you done in life?

[EvilDragon]

AUs all go to the same spot and the world didn't implode, not sure what the fuss is about CLAP doing the same thing it and VST3 do.

Fully agreed and my point exactly. AAX is the same. So actually VST2 is in the minority in this regard.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yep...VST2 offered flexibility, perhaps a bit naively - but hey, it was new and we were young! This created support issues, installation issues, version mismatches, etc. More modern formats (VST3, AAX, AU) have gotten away from that approach and use fixed paths. Not unique to CLAP.

[pdxindy]

Just watched the video: makes me want to buy Bitwig. You bastards! Will wait for the next sale at least. Though, I expect Reaper will support Clap by then...on the other hand, will the modulation be as sexy in Reaper? Really trying to avoid another DAW . I'm very happy with Reaper. Talking to myself now: just because Bitwig is something new and pretty doesn't mean you need to think about cheating on Reaper.

I'd love to know if there's a bump in Bitwig sales as a result of Clap.

Reaper may support CLAP but not necessarily be able to do the per voice modulation from the DAW like Bitwig. Plus, this works in Bitwig because the Bitwig modulation system is exceptional... very well designed and a great workflow.

[Urs]

I find it hard to accept that more than a year of work by close to 50 people becomes a great failure because one developer dares to make the big mistake of disagreeing on installation best practices. Not sure if or - probably both.

Can we move back on topic then?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Reaper may support CLAP but not necessarily be able to do the per voice modulation from the DAW like Bitwig. Plus, this works in Bitwig because the Bitwig modulation system is exceptional... very well designed and a great workflow.

That's what I'm thinking too. That said, I'd never rule out Schwa and Justin having some surprises in store. But it would be a big surprise for me if Reaper introduced per voice modulation as a result of Clap.

[Urs]

The new features are offers. They are relatively straight forward to implement. I hope the DAWs and plug-ins will make use of them, and the good thing is that they can be implemented gradually.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Can we move back on topic then?

Mind if I bump my own question from a few pages ago? I think it got lost in the discussion...

Question on the betas/preview build while I'm at work: are there updates to the VST/VST3/AU builds included in this thread with fixes for us? Basically: should non-CLAP users treat this as a new public beta or should we wait this one out? I'm assuming the stricter error reporting would only exist on the CLAP format, but if it's going to impact VST/VST3/AU, I'd rather wait this out.

Are these builds all about Clap, or should VST2/VST3 users check them out too?

[Urs]

Also, technically DAWs can start by implementing them as CLAP first, so they can be developed outside the codebase.

[Urs]

There’s no news for other formats other than MFM improvements

[pdxindy]

I’m not sure if any other DAW can or will be capable of Voice Stacking as Bitwig does.
As I understand, voice stacking will probably be available with CLAP. I’m not sure how other DAWs will implement it as elegantly as in Bitwig or if at all.

I didn’t use this feature before because I hardly used the built in devices in Bitwig (because I use u-he almost exclusively) but if that’s coming….

No other DAW comes close to the elegance of the Bitwig modulation system (before CLAP). And the voice stacking as well as the modulation has such a great workflow, that it invites creative use.

I use the built-in Bitwig instruments more than you (they keep getting better sound-wise), but u-he synths are my main instruments for sure. They all sound amazing and are distinct from each other. Now with the full Bitwig modulation system (not the voice stacking yet) for u-he synths, Bitwig just because indispensable. I've been getting a variety of sounds in Diva and ACE that I could not have done a few days ago! Very excited for when CLAP versions of Bazille and RePro come along!

[pdxindy]

Reaper may support CLAP but not necessarily be able to do the per voice modulation from the DAW like Bitwig. Plus, this works in Bitwig because the Bitwig modulation system is exceptional... very well designed and a great workflow.

That's what I'm thinking too. That said, I'd never rule out Schwa and Justin having some surprises in store. But it would be a big surprise for me if Reaper introduced per voice modulation as a result of Clap.

Would be great if they implemented per voice modulation. Be even better if it was fast and elegant like Bitwig. Making use of the feature in Bitwig works cause the Bitwig modulation system has a fantastic workflow! It is fun to use and it is also easy to look at an existing preset, understand and edit what is going on, set it up to be controlled by macros and so on.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

There’s no news for other formats other than MFM improvements

Thank you sir. Will just stick to checking out the new MFM beta until I get a Clap compatible host.

[EvilDragon]

Reaper may support CLAP but not necessarily be able to do the per voice modulation from the DAW like Bitwig. Plus, this works in Bitwig because the Bitwig modulation system is exceptional... very well designed and a great workflow.

Reaper does have Parameter Modulation dialog, which is basically an audio-driven envelope follower, an LFO and parameter linking in one, and it uses host automation to wiggle the parameters via this.

It could absolutely be repurposed to do these things per voice (well, at least the LFO) in case of CLAP plugin being loaded.