CLAP... thoughts?

[dayjob]

Go CAPS

that's a hockey team. washington Capitals. commonly referred to as the Caps and there's cheers.. Go Caps Go etc.

personally.. i don't care what they call it so long as it happens and people jump on board and bring us awesome new features.

[Hink]

so that's a no on getting back to learning about clap?

[baconpaul]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

non-destructive monophonic modulation is very useful for effects, and i know at least one effect manufacturer who thinks they will have it soon. (Not surge!) Remember that modulation has two parts.

Also note effects are a very powerful tool. I have written a small effect which modifies note streams in CLAP to apply microtuning to some instruments which support note expressions but not a particular tuning. So there could and probably will be a new class of effects in the logical /midi effect space. (Just getting midi is also useful for this).

The thread pool is remarkably powerful for heavy effects.

But scan speed matters as well. I did a little work last night and built all 307 airwindows as claps (this is not released yet since I want to talk to Chris obviously) and the average time to scan an individual clap in one of our test harnesses was sub millisecond. Because I grouped all the airwindows into a single clap file, by our estimate we could scan 76750 plugins per second.

And of course, clean code, open license, etc... all the stuff before applies for effects as much as it does for synths.

[Music Engineer]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

I would actually hope that CLAP does away with the strict distinction between effects and instruments anyway? That has always been a somewhat artificial limitation in VST, IMHO. Tagging a plugin as effect or instrument for organizational matters is fine - but that classification should hopefully not limit what the plugin can do?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

But scan speed matters as well. I did a little work last night and built all 307 airwindows as claps (this is not released yet since I want to talk to Chris obviously) and the average time to scan an individual clap in one of our test harnesses was sub millisecond. Because I grouped all the airwindows into a single clap file, by our estimate we could scan 76750 plugins per second.

I think I just got a little aroused.

I can't stand the long load times of VST2/VST3 - especially for those manufacturers that make it painfully slow (Arturia, cough, cough).

Seriously, the thought that my entire plugin folder could be scanned from scratch in under a second is just insane. Is that real-world usage? Would things like copy protection (iLok, cough) and/or resources being loaded (Arturia, cough) slow down the scanning in the real-world?

[10bd01]

it already has a name. and, like most things, it's value will come from it's capabilities, it's functionality; the name will not make or break it. so (and am telling myself this as well), let's get back to discussing what this is, what we expect, what our questions are; you know, a discussion about the thing itself.

Fine, but names CAN make and break a product. Literally call CLAP "Venereal Disease" and make the plug extension ".venerealdisease" and then sit back and watch as it's name breaks it. It's a spectrum and CLAP is on the spectrum in a more unflattering position than at least tens of other options. If it doesn't break it, does it help it? The answer is no, it does not.

You can get back to discussing what you prefer and allow others to discuss what they prefer. The title of this thread is "CLAP... thoughts?" not "CLAP... thoughts on everything but the name?". This was a thought of some: "CLAP is an STD, isn't it?".

I find myself chatting on this thread when I'd much rather be reading it because people are acting so dismissively towards others when legitimate points are raised. The name is donkey balls, period. It's fair for consumers to wonder how an industry-wide change in standards may affect their user experience, period.

The best way to have avoided this discussion in the first place was to have done more research on the name; in most cases the first impression people have of a thing.

[Hink]

it already has a name. and, like most things, it's value will come from it's capabilities, it's functionality; the name will not make or break it. so (and am telling myself this as well), let's get back to discussing what this is, what we expect, what our questions are; you know, a discussion about the thing itself.

Fine, but names CAN make and break a product. Literally call CLAP "Venereal Disease" and make the plug extension ".venerealdisease" and then sit back and watch as it's name breaks it. It's a spectrum and CLAP is on the spectrum in a more unflattering position than at least tens of other options. If it doesn't break it, does it help it? The answer is no, it does not.

You can get back to discussing what you prefer and allow others to discuss what they prefer. The title of this thread is "CLAP... thoughts?" not "CLAP... thoughts on everything but the name?". This was a thought of some: "CLAP is an STD, isn't it?".

I find myself chatting on this thread when I'd much rather be reading it because people are acting so dismissively towards others when legitimate points are raised. The name is donkey balls, period. It's fair for consumers to wonder how an industry-wide change in standards may affect their user experience, period.

The best way to have avoided this discussion in the first place was to have done more research on the name; in most cases the first impression people have of a thing.

we are done discussing the name, there are people who want to talk about CLAP itself, the name thing is a dead horse and if people cannot strop bringing up and derailing the thread they need to stay out it.../done.

[melomood]

The instrument or fx would be the product

[MirkoVanHauten]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

I would actually hope that CLAP does away with the strict distinction between effects and instruments anyway? That has always been a somewhat artificial limitation in VST, IMHO. Tagging a plugin as effect or instrument for organizational matters is fine - but that classification should hopefully not limit what the plugin can do?

May I ask what advantages dropping the distinction would have? Like is routing audio through an instrument and using its effects a thing then? Or better MIDI input for effects? Or MIDI plugins? From the VST perspective what is the difference between an effect & instrument processing wise?

[dayjob]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

non-destructive monophonic modulation is very useful for effects, and i know at least one effect manufacturer who thinks they will have it soon. (Not surge!) Remember that modulation has two parts.

Also note effects are a very powerful tool. I have written a small effect which modifies note streams in CLAP to apply microtuning to some instruments which support note expressions but not a particular tuning. So there could and probably will be a new class of effects in the logical /midi effect space. (Just getting midi is also useful for this).

The thread pool is remarkably powerful for heavy effects.

this kind of thing sounds interesting. it's what can be done w/max for live devices on real time midi either as played or from sequences/clips. it can be a really inspiring thing and a great way to jam and generate ideas and variations.

what i've gathered from reading these various threads about CLAP is it handles midi and audio more elegantly with a lot more able to be accomplished... or perhaps audio and midi simultaneously even...

so, things like midi controlled FX might have more of their doors opened up.. so to speak.

also, in general, it sounds like midi plug ins will generally be easier to do.

in logic the midi plug in is a separate thing and has its own slot which simplifies things in some scenarios.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

I would actually hope that CLAP does away with the strict distinction between effects and instruments anyway? That has always been a somewhat artificial limitation in VST, IMHO. Tagging a plugin as effect or instrument for organizational matters is fine - but that classification should hopefully not limit what the plugin can do?

May I ask what advantages dropping the distinction would have? Like is routing audio through an instrument and using its effects a thing then? Or better MIDI input for effects? Or MIDI plugins? From the VST perspective what is the difference between an effect & instrument processing wise?

It might be cool if other FX could be patched into an insert point of a Clap instrument. Not sure if that’s possible but FX Sends/Returns could be really interesting.

Or polyphonic FX processing if desired. Like running 8 different voices of an instrument through 8 different delays. Would kill CPU.

[vurt]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

that's what im looking forward to!
pdxindys demo's sounded fun.
hoping bidule gets support asap or i may just get in on the bitwig cult

[baconpaul]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

I would actually hope that CLAP does away with the strict distinction between effects and instruments anyway? That has always been a somewhat artificial limitation in VST, IMHO. Tagging a plugin as effect or instrument for organizational matters is fine - but that classification should hopefully not limit what the plugin can do?

There is no difference between a synth and an effect. It’s all just a plugin with ports. A plugin with midi and note input and single stereo output is probably a synth especially if the first feature in the arbitrary list of feature says synth. But it really is feature list and ports and that’s it. And feature list is optional.

[baconpaul]

So "Polyphonic modulation" is one killer, unique feature of CLAP that instruments should be able to take advantage. Are there any features like that [over existing standards] for effects processors too?

I would actually hope that CLAP does away with the strict distinction between effects and instruments anyway? That has always been a somewhat artificial limitation in VST, IMHO. Tagging a plugin as effect or instrument for organizational matters is fine - but that classification should hopefully not limit what the plugin can do?

May I ask what advantages dropping the distinction would have? Like is routing audio through an instrument and using its effects a thing then? Or better MIDI input for effects? Or MIDI plugins? From the VST perspective what is the difference between an effect & instrument processing wise?

It might be cool if other FX could be patched into an insert point of a Clap instrument. Not sure if that’s possible but FX Sends/Returns could be really interesting.

Or polyphonic FX processing if desired. Like running 8 different voices of an instrument through 8 different delays. Would kill CPU.

Think port topology not name. An effect is usually 2-4 in 2out but nothing in the spec requires that. I made a clap with no audio ports today and it was useful

[melomood]

*dreams of a Lucifer style audio mangling plugin that doesn't require a separate midi track routed to it*