Which DAW Swings the best for you?

[Andreya_Autumn]

That does seem a little better honestly! Maybe I should check that program out... It's kinda old right? Don't think I've ever used it.

I'm not sure I was clear. I didn't mean to say I want to use normal "un-grooved" functions in this context. What I meant to say is, when working with even rhythms, we have certain tools right? Quantization and snap-to-grid editing are the main ones.
Those tools rely on the (fixed and even) grid lines, which means those tools become useless when the intended rhythm is swung/drunk/staggered. I wish more DAWs would solve this with groove templates for the grid lines themselves. Ideally by letting the user experiment by moving them around. Then the same tools would work for any kind of groove.

[Weasel-Boy]

Various methods of swing and groove quantize creation in Cubase are demonstrated in this video.

[syntonica]

I've never cared for built-in groove, either by percentage or by template. They always seemed just as robotic as full quantization, I've always played one or several bars by hand, tweaked to taste if needed, and then copied the bits I liked best for repeats. That way, each part has its own feel, as if played by different musicians.

[Andreya_Autumn]

Oh, I agree 100%. Having *exactly* the same timings every bar is only really viable for certain styles of music, for sure. And most experienced producers have ways of avoiding that when it doesn't serve the music. Midi "humanization" (random timing/velocity error, really) for example.

In my mind that's a totally separate issue though. It influences staggered and non-staggered grooves alike, and to me the conversation here is about the workflow differences between those musical situations. I think that's what OP was intending too, though I can't say for sure I guess.

[imrae]

I like the ReGroove mixer in Reason, but it's really badly integrated with the various sequencer devices, which can only follow global shuffle. It sucks having to choose between sequencing and groove.

Similarly, in REAPER I use the SWS groove tool and really like the results it gets - but it works by changing note events so doesn't integrate that well into editing. Have to place a few notes on grid then re-apply groove.

[apoclypse]

Here's a thought I've been carrying around. What if, instead of having a separate groove interface, the grid lines themselves could be moved around a little. They already do that when we dial in swing percentage right? Why couldn't they also do that to line up with other grooves. Then all the regular quantization/snap-to-grid functions could remain useful even when working with staggered/human/drunk rhythms.

Isn't it weird that no DAW developers have thought to do that? Think about it, when making a tune in some kind of staggered groove: Why do we have to first look at a symmetrical grid, and then open this weird second separate interface to fix the timings. Why can't we adjust the grid lines so they represent the music we actually want to hear?

Studio One does that. It moves the grid according to groove or swing setting set.

[EnGee]

The deeper I delve into S1, the more impressed I am!

[MTorn]

Studio One does that. It moves the grid according to groove or swing setting set.

Studio One does that with all the varieties of shuffle (which is awesome, and should be standard for all DAWs), but it doesn't move the grid lines when using groove quantize mode. Unless it does, and I'm doing it wrong?
At least in groove quantize mode it snaps nicely to the imported groove.

[Andreya_Autumn]

I was also under the impression that it only does it for swing percentages, not for other grooves. Maybe Apocalypse can confirm?

If it does move grid lines around I'd be very curious to learn how they've implemented it. E.g. how the user controls where the grid lines go etc.

[apoclypse]

Studio One does that. It moves the grid according to groove or swing setting set.

Studio One does that with all the varieties of shuffle (which is awesome, and should be standard for all DAWs), but it doesn't move the grid lines when using groove quantize mode. Unless it does, and I'm doing it wrong?
At least in groove quantize mode it snaps nicely to the imported groove.

You are correct. It only does it when using the swing setting not the groove templates. Like you said it does however snap to the groove even though the grid lines aren't displayed. Definitely something Presonus should add. Maybe there is some kind of technical reason why they didn't implement it.

[apoclypse]

Various methods of swing and groove quantize creation in Cubase are demonstrated in this video.

Not sure if I like that workflow. Seems like a lot of steps and dialogs to do simple swing and groove. Maybe in practice it's not so bad. I'm not a Cubase user so its hard to tell if it would get annoying or not.

[pdxindy]

I own a few DAWs at this point and each one has a different approach to the Swing/groove workflow. Ableton uses Groovepools, Logic has both Swing/Shuffle and groove templates. Studio One does as well (with the added bonus that the grid reflects the chosen swing settings). Then there is Bitwig which has a pretty rudimentary shuffle workflow.

Personally my favorites are Logic and Studio One because I found them to be the most flexible. I do remember liking Reason's ReGroove to be pretty cool though I haven't played with it much.

Which DAW has the best swing workflow for you?

I use Bitwig and Logic and used to use Live. I prefer Logic's groove/swing out of the 3. Live playing is better still

[apoclypse]

I own a few DAWs at this point and each one has a different approach to the Swing/groove workflow. Ableton uses Groovepools, Logic has both Swing/Shuffle and groove templates. Studio One does as well (with the added bonus that the grid reflects the chosen swing settings). Then there is Bitwig which has a pretty rudimentary shuffle workflow.

Personally my favorites are Logic and Studio One because I found them to be the most flexible. I do remember liking Reason's ReGroove to be pretty cool though I haven't played with it much.

Which DAW has the best swing workflow for you?

I use Bitwig and Logic and used to use Live. I prefer Logic's groove/swing out of the 3. Live playing is better still

I've liked Logic's implementation of swing/groove my only issue is that groove templates aren't global (as far I know). You need make sure you have the midi information in the project you are using. Kind of clunky imo, but great if you want your groove templates when moving the project to another machine or sending it someone.

While this topic is about swing/groove etc. What I really like about Logic is how complete the quantize features are. There isn't a setting there that I think is missing and its been pretty much that way since at least Logic 8 (if not older).

One cool thing about Logic's groove workflow is that you can designate one track as the groove master and then assign other tracks to follow that track. It's very slick imo.

[Weasel-Boy]

Not sure if I like that workflow. Seems like a lot of steps and dialogs to do simple swing and groove. Maybe in practice it's not so bad. I'm not a Cubase user so its hard to tell if it would get annoying or not.

Cubase is the granddaddy of groove quantize functionality, dating all the way back to the Atari days.

As to the video, Greg is pointing out many of the different tools and methodologies available in the program to accomplish quantizing audio or MIDI to any groove source. It’s not a specifically focused step by step video.

As to ease of use, you can easily create and enter dozens of swing and groove presets into the Quantize drop down menu for quick recall use. When a selection is deployed, the editor’s grid lines automatically shift to your selection. It’s actually quite a thorough and well designed system with a lot of options.

[Millzi]

I've got both FL Studio and Ableton Live, love em both but i've got a soft spot for FL Studio as its the very first DAW i used many years ago, tried others in the past like logic, reason, cakewalk but always went back to Fl or ableton, its not because i believe one is better than another, they just work for me, and i'm comfortable with them. I guess my advice would be try a few out and see if you get on with it and make your own mind up, if you feel comfortable and happy using it and find it easy to make music with then its probably the daw for you, but if you start getting wrapped up in forum arguments on which one is better than the other/ pro's and cons etc you could end up making the wrong choice and wasting time, don't get me wrong information and advice from others is very beneficial in helping decide, especially when starting out but from my experience quite a few years ago i kind of got wrapped up in either cubase or logic being great daw's from forum talk and i felt that i needed to use them because it seemed that FL Studio was'nt as good, it was a mistake because i did'nt get on with them and went back to FL Studio, personally i don't care if one is better than another or one has this and the other does'nt etc, if i feel comfortable and happy using the daw and i can make the music i want with it thats all that matters to me.