UVI go subscription!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Alive - UVI Falcon Expansion SonicPass
mixyguy2
KVRist
411 posts since 2 Mar, 2018

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:05 pm

nightjar wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:40 am Huh? This is not at all about learning how to use something. This is about having ongoing access to a wonderful workspace and tools. You are missing the point.
No, you've missed mine. With a plugin it IS about learning how to use it, while with the woodworking, it's not. Therefore, the analogy doesn't hold up. If someone already knew how to use the plugin, then they'd know if it's any good or not and if so, would want to buy it, not "rent" it over and over. That makes no sense. The only way it would is if as I said earlier, to test drive something and see if it's something you'd want to buy...or maybe I guess if you know you have a really short-term need and know the product and feel strongly that's the one you want to use.

nightjar
KVRist
143 posts since 12 Mar, 2021

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 pm

mixyguy2 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:05 pm
nightjar wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:40 am Huh? This is not at all about learning how to use something. This is about having ongoing access to a wonderful workspace and tools. You are missing the point.
No, you've missed mine. With a plugin it IS about learning how to use it, while with the woodworking, it's not. Therefore, the analogy doesn't hold up. If someone already knew how to use the plugin, then they'd know if it's any good or not and if so, would want to buy it, not "rent" it over and over. That makes no sense. The only way it would is if as I said earlier, to test drive something and see if it's something you'd want to buy...or maybe I guess if you know you have a really short-term need and know the product and feel strongly that's the one you want to use.
I totally get your traditional way of how most people build their DAW toolset.

However, there are alternative approaches to music creation emerging... and they're not about owning a DAW toolset.

Sorry to be so frank, but you seem to lack vision on this particular concept and how it will be a preferred approach for many people.

spnc
KVRist
58 posts since 30 Nov, 2020

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:21 pm

Guys could we just stop this pointless war lol, like Olivier said earlier some people won't be happy with the subscription, but he said the company won't change it anyways, many companies turning to this all-in-one subscription model for obvious economies of scale (more money for the company = more product dev and hirings) and practical usability reasons (it's so much simpler to centralize everything and sync/update from a single repository), so I'm afraid this won't change a thing...

If the product could just work on ARM systems as it's intended to be, that would already be a victory :)

hebex
KVRist
173 posts since 18 Jul, 2004

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:01 pm

spnc wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:21 pm Guys could we just stop this pointless war lol, like Olivier said earlier some people won't be happy with the subscription, but he said the company won't change it anyways, many companies turning to this all-in-one subscription model for obvious economies of scale (more money for the company = more product dev and hirings) and practical usability reasons (it's so much simpler to centralize everything and sync/update from a single repository), so I'm afraid this won't change a thing...
:borg: Yes, do what the companies tell you to do, not what is reasonable practice respecting you as a consumer, you have no say, resistance is futile, live in a pod, watch Netflix, play the computer games, watch p@rn, eat the bugs, own nothing and be happy.

spnc
KVRist
58 posts since 30 Nov, 2020

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:32 pm

hebex wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:01 pm
spnc wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:21 pm Guys could we just stop this pointless war lol, like Olivier said earlier some people won't be happy with the subscription, but he said the company won't change it anyways, many companies turning to this all-in-one subscription model for obvious economies of scale (more money for the company = more product dev and hirings) and practical usability reasons (it's so much simpler to centralize everything and sync/update from a single repository), so I'm afraid this won't change a thing...
:borg: Yes, do what the companies tell you to do, not what is reasonable practice respecting you as a consumer, you have no say, resistance is futile, live in a pod, watch Netflix, play the computer games, watch p@rn, eat the bugs, own nothing and be happy.
In the end it's all about supply and demand... free market solves it all :) You're free not to buy, aren't you?

hebex
KVRist
173 posts since 18 Jul, 2004

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:41 pm

spnc wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:32 pm
hebex wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:01 pm
spnc wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:21 pm Guys could we just stop this pointless war lol, like Olivier said earlier some people won't be happy with the subscription, but he said the company won't change it anyways, many companies turning to this all-in-one subscription model for obvious economies of scale (more money for the company = more product dev and hirings) and practical usability reasons (it's so much simpler to centralize everything and sync/update from a single repository), so I'm afraid this won't change a thing...
:borg: Yes, do what the companies tell you to do, not what is reasonable practice respecting you as a consumer, you have no say, resistance is futile, live in a pod, watch Netflix, play the computer games, watch p@rn, eat the bugs, own nothing and be happy.
In the end it's all about supply and demand... free market solves it all :) You're free not to buy, aren't you?
:borg: Yes, leave any decency and self respect behind, let there only be big corporation business models and you submitting to it, let big money corrupt everything and rule the world.

mixyguy2
KVRist
411 posts since 2 Mar, 2018

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:05 pm

nightjar wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 pm I totally get your traditional way of how most people build their DAW toolset.

However, there are alternative approaches to music creation emerging... and they're not about owning a DAW toolset.

Sorry to be so frank, but you seem to lack vision on this particular concept and how it will be a preferred approach for many people.
Again you have it backwards; it's your vision that is lacking. The subscription thing in most cases makes no sense whatsoever for the consumer and benefits only the companies (with exceptions as already noted). But if you or others want to give money to a company month after month and own nothing at the end of the day and have to keep doing it every month, whatever, have fun.

ghettosynth
KVRAF
13846 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:39 pm

spnc wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:21 pm Guys could we just stop this pointless war lol, like Olivier said earlier some people won't be happy with the subscription, but he said the company won't change it anyways, many companies turning to this all-in-one subscription model for obvious economies of scale (more money for the company = more product dev and hirings) and practical usability reasons (it's so much simpler to centralize everything and sync/update from a single repository), so I'm afraid this won't change a thing...
Anyone tasked with responding to customers in an online forum is unlikely to have the authority to keep a promise like that in all but the tiniest of companies. Even if the permanent licenses are still for sale, what we see when companies go subscription is less focus on selling those and more focus on subscriptions.

The discussion of this shift in the software industry is not pointless. Those of you sold on subscription are simply not the target audience.

SoftSynthLover99
KVRist
224 posts since 27 Jun, 2019

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:50 pm

mixyguy2 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:05 pm
nightjar wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 pm I totally get your traditional way of how most people build their DAW toolset.

However, there are alternative approaches to music creation emerging... and they're not about owning a DAW toolset.

Sorry to be so frank, but you seem to lack vision on this particular concept and how it will be a preferred approach for many people.
Again you have it backwards; it's your vision that is lacking. The subscription thing in most cases makes no sense whatsoever for the consumer and benefits only the companies (with exceptions as already noted). But if you or others want to give money to a company month after month and own nothing at the end of the day and have to keep doing it every month, whatever, have fun.
Do you really “own” a software license though? In most cases the answer is a clear NO. You pay for access to use the license indefinitely, you don’t actually “own” the software license. Just look at the Waves update plan. I technically paid for the Abbey Road Collection, but yet I can’t use the newest version 14 without paying WUP. Does that sound like I “own” the abbey road collection to you?

The UVI sonicpass is $240 a year. For everything they make from now-into the future. In 10 years you would have only spent $2,400, and I can guarantee in that amount of time the value of new products UVI will release, will far exceed that amount.

If you want to do the math, go add every current UVI product to your cart and look at the total. It will take you 15+ years paying $240 a year to get in the ball park of what it would take to “own” every software license from UVI right now.

So as a professional musician who makes a living 100% from music, paying $240 a year sure as hell beats paying a few thousand upfront for software that in 5 years I will likely have to pay again to update.

And speak for yourself, some subscriptions are insane value for musicians (Plugin Alliance, UVI Sonic Pass, Slate Everything Bundle). It’s just a different way of accessing useful tools.

To offer you a different analogy: Say your goal is to workout and get in shape. It’s possible for u to build a state of the art gym in your own home, but it will definitely cost you thousands (if not tens of thousands) to build it. Or, you can pay $50 a month for a gym membership with state of the art equipment and be on your way.

If you decide to cancel, you can’t take any of the gym equipment home with you, so plugin subscriptions are the same way. You are paying to have access to tools and equipment. It’s not a scam, it’s not a government conspiracy, it’s just a different way of working with software which is beneficial to a lot of people.

nightjar
KVRist
143 posts since 12 Mar, 2021

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:54 pm

mixyguy2 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:05 pmThe subscription thing in most cases makes no sense whatsoever for the consumer and benefits only the companies (with exceptions as already noted).
The subscription model can make perfect sense for many music creators and be the better and preferred approach. That is a simple fact.

Others music creators will prefer the more traditional way of owning their own DAW toolset. And that is fine too.

Both approaches can simultaneously "make sense" for large groups of different people.

SoftSynthLover99
KVRist
224 posts since 27 Jun, 2019

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:04 pm

otristan wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:30 am
spnc wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:55 pm
SoftSynthLover99 wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:12 am
spnc wrote: Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:06 am UVI products are amazing, I took the newly released SonicPass since May for Falcon and the Soundbanks and the effects. I thought I had finally found the dream VST, wow the sonic quality and interface is outstanding, so many layers, rich textures, even ethnic librairies included too, the whole package you need for modern electronic music... no competition out there.

BUT it's ruining my workflow so far, they have a serious issue where ARM 64 Falcon isn't yet 100% stable with M1 Macs/Ableton, and it keeps crashing Ableton when I use multiple instances of Falcon in a project.

It's really ruining it, I can't work like this. You won't even be able to open your project anymore after the crash. You have to manually restore the stems, which is not a viable option (plus it will keep crashing again after the next save anyway), since I need my return channels too, and they're gone of course.

I've been in contact every day with UVI support for the past 3 weeks, they're very available but so far they're investigating my Ableton crash reports, we have no solution yet.

It's really a major issue, can you imagine if every M1 user is having this problem?? Total waste.

Problem is 80% of my tracks right have quite a few instances of Falcon and rely on it.

I'm really hoping they're gonna fix this...
Can confirm that I get crashes in Logic Pro X as well on a M1 MAX Macbook pro. And sometimes when duplicating a track that I’ve used custom FX chains in Falcon for, I’ll get a red outline around the instrument and the GUI messes up and the instrument won’t play.

Sucks because Falcon and the UVI product line are incredible, but I do hope they fix the crashes as it does make Falcon and all the libraries unusable at the moment.
Thank you for your feedback, I'm gonny copy paste this and include in it my ticket convo with them.

The more we are to complain publicly here and on other forums (Gearspace etc.), the more they will have no choice and listen to us (in theory lol)!
We are already on it for the Program 24 crashes.

Regarding red outline around the instrument and the GUI messes up and the instrument won’t play, some script requires some FX to be there otherwise they stop functionning (hence the red border) . so if you want a custom FX chain, just bypass them in the script UI and put your custom one on the Part level.
I think I understand what you mean, will give that a try and see if that resolves the issue tomorrow in the studio.

Even when I don’t do any custom FX chains I’ve still had Falcon hang and crash Logic Pro X randomly (MacOS Monterey Apple M1 Max). Especially using Keysuite instruments it seems. Any tips to prevent crashes in logic pro x?

rasmusklump
KVRAF
1566 posts since 13 May, 2004 from Germany

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:27 pm

SoftSynthLover99 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:50 pm
mixyguy2 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:05 pm
nightjar wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:15 pm I totally get your traditional way of how most people build their DAW toolset.

However, there are alternative approaches to music creation emerging... and they're not about owning a DAW toolset.

Sorry to be so frank, but you seem to lack vision on this particular concept and how it will be a preferred approach for many people.
Again you have it backwards; it's your vision that is lacking. The subscription thing in most cases makes no sense whatsoever for the consumer and benefits only the companies (with exceptions as already noted). But if you or others want to give money to a company month after month and own nothing at the end of the day and have to keep doing it every month, whatever, have fun.
Do you really “own” a software license though? In most cases the answer is a clear NO. You pay for access to use the license indefinitely, you don’t actually “own” the software license. Just look at the Waves update plan. I technically paid for the Abbey Road Collection, but yet I can’t use the newest version 14 without paying WUP. Does that sound like I “own” the abbey road collection to you?

The UVI sonicpass is $240 a year. For everything they make from now-into the future. In 10 years you would have only spent $2,400, and I can guarantee in that amount of time the value of new products UVI will release, will far exceed that amount.

If you want to do the math, go add every current UVI product to your cart and look at the total. It will take you 15+ years paying $240 a year to get in the ball park of what it would take to “own” every software license from UVI right now.

So as a professional musician who makes a living 100% from music, paying $240 a year sure as hell beats paying a few thousand upfront for software that in 5 years I will likely have to pay again to update.

And speak for yourself, some subscriptions are insane value for musicians (Plugin Alliance, UVI Sonic Pass, Slate Everything Bundle). It’s just a different way of accessing useful tools.

To offer you a different analogy: Say your goal is to workout and get in shape. It’s possible for u to build a state of the art gym in your own home, but it will definitely cost you thousands (if not tens of thousands) to build it. Or, you can pay $50 a month for a gym membership with state of the art equipment and be on your way.

If you decide to cancel, you can’t take any of the gym equipment home with you, so plugin subscriptions are the same way. You are paying to have access to tools and equipment. It’s not a scam, it’s not a government conspiracy, it’s just a different way of working with software which is beneficial to a lot of people.
Exactly...

hebex
KVRist
173 posts since 18 Jul, 2004

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm

SoftSynthLover99 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:50 pm To offer you a different analogy: Say your goal is to workout and get in shape. It’s possible for u to build a state of the art gym in your own home, but it will definitely cost you thousands (if not tens of thousands) to build it. Or, you can pay $50 a month for a gym membership with state of the art equipment and be on your way.

If you decide to cancel, you can’t take any of the gym equipment home with you, so plugin subscriptions are the same way. You are paying to have access to tools and equipment. It’s not a scam, it’s not a government conspiracy, it’s just a different way of working with software which is beneficial to a lot of people.
At any moment you have a complaint with the company products, with a subscription they have you by the balls. You either stop complaining or they just pull the plug and you have nowhere to go and all money you have invested -- by your monthly subscription fee -- in your digital equipment is gone. You either do what they tell you, or you will have nothing at all.

This may not be a government conspiracy, but the business model sure as hell is a big corp conspiracy -- the same ones that own said government(s) BTW -- with the goal that you´ll in the end live in serfdom and own nothing.

The only way to stop this is if people think ahead, before big corp have implemented this, before it´s too late.

So please, think of the future of mankind. Don´t feed the monster. You´ll help destroy for all of us if you take the bait.
Last edited by hebex on Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

otristan
KVRAF
2279 posts since 28 Mar, 2005

Post Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:52 pm

SoftSynthLover99 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:04 pm Even when I don’t do any custom FX chains I’ve still had Falcon hang and crash Logic Pro X randomly (MacOS Monterey Apple M1 Max). Especially using Keysuite instruments it seems. Any tips to prevent crashes in logic pro x?
Please send me the ticket id with those crashlog so I can have a look.

Thanks !
Olivier Tristan
Developer - UVI Team
http://www.uvi.net

nightjar
KVRist
143 posts since 12 Mar, 2021

Post Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:56 am

hebex wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:34 pm At any moment you have a complaint with the company products, with a subscription they have you by the balls. You either stop complaining or they just pull the plug and you have nowhere to go and all money you have invested -- by your monthly subscription fee -- in your digital equipment is gone. You either do what they tell you, or you will have nothing at all.
You would still have all the music (mixes, tracks, stems, midi files..) you created with this subscription, just like you'd still have all the conditioning benefits after a cancelled gym membership.

You don't need to own a nice gym with all the expensive machines.

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