UVI go subscription!

[nightjar]

It´s rather a warped view of reality to believe that a sales representative from UVI, saying that already bought products from UVI still always will be supported after they turn subscription model, is something to take seriously, since he most likely won´t hold himself or UVI responsible if it turns out that he is lying.

So it´s rather a "gamble" to believe that he is telling the truth, and IMO an even worse "gamble" -- morally -- to then try to convince uninitiated to this discussion that the sub business model is nothing to worry about.

You are confusing your perpetual product being supported vs a future version of your perpetual product being offered for sale. These are not the same thing.

At the core of your fear is the loss of residual value in your perpetual product because a future version of it may not be offered. You expect others to shield you from a gamble you took.

And you wrap yourself in a cloak of moral and/or informed superiority, but you are really just someone afraid of losing money for a choice they made.

[hebex]

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

This will blow your mind.

If you hire a violinist, you record her audio. Then she goes home. And here's the miracle - when you play back the project the following day, her performance is STILL THERE even though she has GONE HOME! But how?!

Well, that's the miracle of recording audio.

If you rent some virtual instruments for a month, here's the secret trick - once you're happy with your performance and sound, you then RECORD THE AUDIO. Just bounce it out. Then cancel your subscription and discover - the performance is STILL THERE! Because it's AUDIO!

Turns out, people from The Beatles to Madonna all used this simple trick - RECORD AUDIO!

or, do all your composition with host plugins, then when you are happy, one month rental, use the midi to track the fancy synths, burn, done.

like when we used to use shitty cheap instruments for rehearsals, then hire nice stuff for the studio

or, just don't subscribe.


i think some people are very lucky, if they can look at this, and think it's evil. they have clearly never experienced evil.

Why do you want me to radically change my way or working just because of bad business practice?

Why do you want to take away the functionality of the products I´ve paid for?

Why do you want to rob me of the investments I´ve made in the digital product?

Why do you want to chain me to the company, if I want to continue using the VST-instrument I´ve invested that much time in, or tell me to just get another -- why do you want me to view instruments as interchangeble? You may make music where nothing of this matter, but don´t tell others that they have to give up their stuff just because you don´t care of the VST-instruments in question. Why you participate in this discussion at all doesn´t make sense.

[rasmusklump]

That the "choice" will remain? Are you willing to get that into paper with a damages clause, guaranteeing all existing non-sub customer individuals damage of say 100K $ if you, in spite of your "promises" here, in the future still go only-sub?

This is a rather warped view of reality.

There is no guarantee of residual value in the software you purchase. The gamble of residual value is the choice you made when you bought it.

It´s rather a warped view of reality to believe that a sales representative from UVI, saying that already bought products from UVI still always will be supported after they turn subscription model, is something to take seriously, since he most likely won´t hold himself or UVI responsible if it turns out that he is lying.

So it´s rather a "gamble" to believe that he is telling the truth, and IMO an even worse "gamble" -- morally -- to then try to convince uninitiated to this discussion that the sub business model is nothing to worry about.

You know so much that you think he is a UVI salesman?
Maybe you should get your facts together first.

[vurt]

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

This will blow your mind.

If you hire a violinist, you record her audio. Then she goes home. And here's the miracle - when you play back the project the following day, her performance is STILL THERE even though she has GONE HOME! But how?!

Well, that's the miracle of recording audio.

If you rent some virtual instruments for a month, here's the secret trick - once you're happy with your performance and sound, you then RECORD THE AUDIO. Just bounce it out. Then cancel your subscription and discover - the performance is STILL THERE! Because it's AUDIO!

Turns out, people from The Beatles to Madonna all used this simple trick - RECORD AUDIO!

or, do all your composition with host plugins, then when you are happy, one month rental, use the midi to track the fancy synths, burn, done.

like when we used to use shitty cheap instruments for rehearsals, then hire nice stuff for the studio

or, just don't subscribe.


i think some people are very lucky, if they can look at this, and think it's evil. they have clearly never experienced evil.

Why do you want me to radically change my way or working just because of bad business practice?

Why do you want to take away the functionality of the products I´ve paid for?

Why do you want to rob me of the investments I´ve made in the digital product?

Why do you want to chain me to the company, if I want to continue using the VST-instrument I´ve invested that much time in, or tell me to just get another -- why do you want me to view instruments as interchangeble? You may make music where nothing of this matter, but don´t tell others that they have to give up their stuff just because you don´t care of the VST-instruments in question. Why you participate in this discussion at all doesn´t make sense.

as a counter to the sky is falling crew, to show, it's not the end of the world, that there are options. if you cared about getting the music done, you'd see that's what im offering, but you care about some perceived value of the synth, that uvi owe you something, when you have what you paid for already...

[vertibration]

Ive come to the conclusion that the majority of people who flip out on KVR need to desperately have sex with someone to ease their inner termoil

[vurt]

Ive come to the conclusion that the majority of people who flip out on KVR need to desperately have sex with someone to ease their inner termoil

wonder if you can get it on subscription...?

[SoftSynthLover99]

What would play back those midi files that you recorded with the UVI-instruments if the sub was cancelled? The instruments you recorded it with would be gone. All songs and scetches in progress with tracks recorded with UVI-instruments in them would be left in limbo.

This will blow your mind.

If you hire a violinist, you record her audio. Then she goes home. And here's the miracle - when you play back the project the following day, her performance is STILL THERE even though she has GONE HOME! But how?!

Well, that's the miracle of recording audio.

If you rent some virtual instruments for a month, here's the secret trick - once you're happy with your performance and sound, you then RECORD THE AUDIO. Just bounce it out. Then cancel your subscription and discover - the performance is STILL THERE! Because it's AUDIO!

Turns out, people from The Beatles to Madonna all used this simple trick - RECORD AUDIO!

or, do all your composition with host plugins, then when you are happy, one month rental, use the midi to track the fancy synths, burn, done.

like when we used to use shitty cheap instruments for rehearsals, then hire nice stuff for the studio

or, just don't subscribe.


i think some people are very lucky, if they can look at this, and think it's evil. they have clearly never experienced evil.

Why do you want me to radically change my way or working just because of bad business practice?

Why do you want to take away the functionality of the products I´ve paid for?

Why do you want to rob me of the investments I´ve made in the digital product?

Why do you want to chain me to the company, if I want to continue using the VST-instrument I´ve invested that much time in, or tell me to just get another -- why do you want me to view instruments as interchangeble? You may make music where nothing of this matter, but don´t tell others that they have to give up their stuff just because you don´t care of the VST-instruments in question. Why you participate in this discussion at all doesn´t make sense.

You do know that if you have purchased a UVI instrument like I have in the past, IT WILL STILL WORK weather you keep the subscription or not, right? It’s iLok based which means it’s not gonna randomly
disappear from your account one day. I have licenses in iLok for stuff really old and some of the companies discontinued or don’t even sell the product anymore, yet I still have my license to use it.


Everyone has fears, but you shouldn’t spread misinformation. Even if UVI discontinue support for a product that you purchased, you will still have access and a license to use that product until an OS upgrade or new CPU chip make it unusable. UVI Sonicpass doesn’t make your purchases unusable at all.

I find it evil that you believe some college student who is an aspiring musician, shouldn’t have the option to pay $240 a year to use and create with great tools/instruments when he/she is on a budget, instead you want to force him/her to pay thousands up front while in college and not give them the “choice” to use UVI Sonicpass in a creative way for his/her workflow? You are failing to see that not everyone has thousands to spend on music software as a lot of musicians barely have enough to live comfortably.

So you advocating for aspiring musicians who may be on a budget (or have little money to spend) to NOT have the choice of using a subscription to make music, and are saying they should only be able to buy things upfront by paying thousands of dollars to the company, putting themselves in financial hell for software, how is THAT not an evil way of looking at this situation?

[hebex]

I find it evil that you believe some college student who is an aspiring musician, shouldn’t have the option to pay $240 a year to use and create with great tools/instruments when he/she is on a budget, instead you want to force him/her to pay thousands up front while in college and not give them the “choice” to use UVI Sonicpass in a creative way for his/her workflow? You are failing to see that not everyone has thousands to spend on music software as a lot of musicians barely have enough to live comfortably.

So you advocating for aspiring musicians who may be on a budget (or have little money to spend) to NOT have the choice of using a subscription to make music, and are saying they should only be able to buy things upfront by paying thousands of dollars to the company, putting themselves in financial hell for software, how is THAT not an evil way of looking at this situation?

Says the one advocating for the student to move all control over his music production into the hands of big corp, and for the student to get into serfdom because it is a bit cheaper for the moment. And you are still not addressing that this evil business practice is contagious and risk destroy the whole VST production industry, if people don´t start to think ahead.

[hebex]

You are confusing your perpetual product being supported vs a future version of your perpetual product being offered for sale. These are not the same thing.

At the core of your fear is the loss of residual value in your perpetual product because a future version of it may not be offered. You expect others to shield you from a gamble you took.

And you wrap yourself in a cloak of morale and/or informed superiority, but you are really just someone afraid of losing money for a choice they made.

You want to evict house owners and force them into renting pods, and when we say no to this evil scheme, you try to distract us and talk about something else and put blame on us in the process. Suddenly everything is our fault and protesting is just wrapping oneself “in a cloak of morale and/or informed superiority”. We apparently should be ashamed for not doing what you want.

But you fail.

As someone said earlier in this topic, “We are moving to a digital share-cropping model where the peasants work the land for the bosses but don't own anything themselves”. We are, however, many who don´t want corporations to view VST-production gear as a Netflix subscription. We don’t want to give the control of our music production over to big business.

It will not be “to each their own” -- just wait until each of them have enough people on subscription.

“The VST instruments you already own will continue to function” No, it won´t. It will be abandonware soon enough, as the company asap will go full subscription model as soon as enough people have taken the bait. The sub model, once implemented, will be the only product available, because "everybody is doing it". And the second hand market will be gone.

At any moment you have a complaint with the company products, with a subscription they then have you by the balls. You either stop complaining or they just pull the plug and you have nowhere to go and all money you have invested -- by your monthly subscription fee -- in your digital equipment is gone. You either do what they tell you, or you will have nothing at all. Giving away all control to the company, don´t tend to serve the consumer.

As another poster said before: To the people actually considering subscriptions: please don't do it. They will try to make it all subscription only if too many fall for it.

[hebex]

Huh? This is not at all about learning how to use something. This is about having ongoing access to a wonderful workspace and tools. You are missing the point.

No, you've missed mine. With a plugin it IS about learning how to use it, while with the woodworking, it's not. Therefore, the analogy doesn't hold up. If someone already knew how to use the plugin, then they'd know if it's any good or not and if so, would want to buy it, not "rent" it over and over. That makes no sense. The only way it would is if as I said earlier, to test drive something and see if it's something you'd want to buy...or maybe I guess if you know you have a really short-term need and know the product and feel strongly that's the one you want to use.

I totally get your traditional way of how most people build their DAW toolset.

However, there are alternative approaches to music creation emerging... and they're not about owning a DAW toolset.

Sorry to be so frank, but you seem to lack vision on this particular concept and how it will be a preferred approach for many people.

What is this “vision” you are talking about, really?
Now, you´ve been around in this topic a long time now, defending this at all cost, no matter how much it destroys for so many existing VST-instrument owners.
That´s a lot of "influencing" attempts there.

[nightjar]

Everyone has fears, but you shouldn’t spread misinformation. Even if UVI discontinue support for a product that you purchased, you will still have access and a license to use that product until an OS upgrade or new CPU chip make it unusable.

And even then, no one is forcing him to upgrade an OS or buy a new computer. He can happily use his purchased product for years and years to come.

Sad that he wants to deny others an alternative ways of creating music, because only his way is the "moral" way to access creative tools.

[nightjar]

What is this “vision” you are talking about, really?

You have been shown several excellent analogies of this "vision".

I think the gym membership offered by another user is the best analogy I've heard.

If you can't see the "vision" in the gym membership analogy, then you are being willfully blind.

My "next door woodworking shop" was a pretty good analogy too.

The output of these analogies is the primary goal (body condition, pieces of furniture).

[hebex]

What is this “vision” you are talking about, really?

You have been shown several excellent analogies of this "vision".

I think the gym membership offered by another user is the best analogy I've heard.

If you can't see the "vision" in the gym membership analogy, then you are being willfully blind.

My "next door woodworking shop" was a pretty good analogy too.

The output of these analogies is the primary goal (body condition, pieces of furniture).

Using the gym analogy, you try to take from us our expensive machines that we already have bought ourselves with our hard earned cash, and try to force us all into a gym where I and many others never wanted to in the first place.
And the gym membership analogy from the start is a failed analogy. You can´t buy and sell the muscles you get in a gym.
It is you who is blind. And that´s me being generous.

[SoftSynthLover99]

I find it evil that you believe some college student who is an aspiring musician, shouldn’t have the option to pay $240 a year to use and create with great tools/instruments when he/she is on a budget, instead you want to force him/her to pay thousands up front while in college and not give them the “choice” to use UVI Sonicpass in a creative way for his/her workflow? You are failing to see that not everyone has thousands to spend on music software as a lot of musicians barely have enough to live comfortably.

So you advocating for aspiring musicians who may be on a budget (or have little money to spend) to NOT have the choice of using a subscription to make music, and are saying they should only be able to buy things upfront by paying thousands of dollars to the company, putting themselves in financial hell for software, how is THAT not an evil way of looking at this situation?

Says the one advocating for the student to move all control over his music production into the hands of big corp, and for the student to get into serfdom because it is a bit cheaper for the moment. And you are still not addressing that this evil business practice is contagious and risk destroy the whole VST production industry, if people don´t start to think ahead.

I’ll agree with you that the business model is contagious, but that doesn’t mean every company who uses this business model will use it in a way that is evil or manipulative to the user. I will even agree that some companies will use this business model in a way that only benefits them and not the user (Komplete now for example is a joke) but the subscription model itself doesn’t = evil. Just like perpetual licenses don’t = true ownership.

[hebex]

And even then, no one is forcing him to upgrade an OS or buy a new computer. He can happily use his purchased product for years and years to come.

For now maybe, until enough people have taken the bait.

Sad that he wants to deny others an alternative ways of creating music, because only his way is the "moral" way to access creative tools.

That´s warning others of an evil business plan which in the end gives over all control for music production into big business and puts us all into serfdom.