Tracktion Waveform 11 Free not sending MIDI data for first note

[pl4sma2389]

Hello all,
I've hooked an external MIDI instrument (Roland D-550) into Waveform 11 Free using a Roland UM-1G interface. I'm also using ASIO4ALL for audio playback. When I route through and use an external MIDI keyboard to send MIDI data to the D-550, everything works as expected. Using the virtual/computer keyboard to send MIDI data also works. However, when I lay down MIDI notes on a track and route that track out to the D-550 (obviously also needing a second track in order to hear the audio from it), all of the notes that start where the playhead is located do not play when I hit play in Waveform. All of the notes that start after the playhead play fine.

I've recorded a video of the issue but it might not embed due to post limitations on my new account. The YouTube play ID is sXNgid5LDQg.


Has anyone else had this issue and solved it? If so, how do you fix it?

[Peter Widdicombe]

This tends to happen when the note is actually one "tick" before the start of play. Edit that note to be at time + 1 or +2. The delay is minuscule and inaudible, but will allow it to play.

Use (1,1,001) instead of (1,1,000) - and watch it if you re-quantize !

[pl4sma2389]

This tends to happen when the note is actually one "tick" before the start of play. Edit that note to be at time + 1 or +2. The delay is minuscule and inaudible, but will allow it to play.

Use (1,1,001) instead of (1,1,000) - and watch it if you re-quantize !

I tried that, it doesn't seem to fix it unless I put it at ,010 or higher. In addition, since I recorded that video, the first notes in the loop region don't play upon the loop restarting unless I apply the above "fix".

[Watchful]

This is a known issue with a fair number of VSTs...

viewtopic.php?t=521636

But it doesn't look like you're using a VST as a tone generator here: it seems that you have MIDI going to the D-550 as a MIDI track, and an audio track playing back the live input. I haven't experienced this issue with hardware.

Not sure this will help your dropped note issue, but it may--and it will certainly help you when working with hardware--use the "INSERT" plugin. I believe it comes with Waveform Free. If so, it's in the plugins menus, under Waveform... Utilities, if I recall.

1. Drag the insert plugin onto a blank track.
2. On the SEND device section, select your MIDI input (your D-550, in other words)
3. On the RETURN device section, select your audio interface line input(s).

Put a MIDI clip on the track, and your D-550 will play it: the Insert plugin basically turns your hardware into a plugin. This lets you use your D-550 with one and only one track. It cuts down on a lot of delay, and *may* help clean up the dropped-first-note issue.

If this works for you, take this advice: SAVE THIS INSERT PLUGIN AS A PRESET! That way, anytime you want to use your D-550, you just drag that plugin onto your track of choice and you're good to go. I have a preset for every piece of hardware I use, because it's such a time saver and reduces the track counts down.

[pl4sma2389]

This is a known issue with a fair number of VSTs...

viewtopic.php?t=521636

But it doesn't look like you're using a VST as a tone generator here: it seems that you have MIDI going to the D-550 as a MIDI track, and an audio track playing back the live input. I haven't experienced this issue with hardware.

Not sure this will help your dropped note issue, but it may--and it will certainly help you when working with hardware--use the "INSERT" plugin. I believe it comes with Waveform Free. If so, it's in the plugins menus, under Waveform... Utilities, if I recall.

1. Drag the insert plugin onto a blank track.
2. On the SEND device section, select your MIDI input (your D-550, in other words)
3. On the RETURN device section, select your audio interface line input(s).

Put a MIDI clip on the track, and your D-550 will play it: the Insert plugin basically turns your hardware into a plugin. This lets you use your D-550 with one and only one track. It cuts down on a lot of delay, and *may* help clean up the dropped-first-note issue.

If this works for you, take this advice: SAVE THIS INSERT PLUGIN AS A PRESET! That way, anytime you want to use your D-550, you just drag that plugin onto your track of choice and you're good to go. I have a preset for every piece of hardware I use, because it's such a time saver and reduces the track counts down.

Actually, I've never had that issue with any VST plugin, only with the D-550 (and I think that my DX-11 has it too).

That "Insert" plugin functionality is super cool and makes sense, I just didn't read that part of the manual. Thanks for letting me know-- unfortunately, it still doesn't fix the issue.

[Watchful]

So sorry it doesn't fix the issue... and unfortunately, its use isn't covered in any manual. Documentation is lacking in Waveform, to be sure.

With luck, Peter will be able to recommend the MIDI monitor tool to ensure the first note is even going out to your hardware. He's got good experience with it, whereas I don't.

[Peter Widdicombe]

The MIDI Monitor tool you drop in like another effect in the chain on the right - and it should show you what MIDI events are being processed (note, velocity, duration, controllers, etc>.) which often gives you useful information into what is going on. It's under Tracktion utilities, and is pretty simple to use.

Are note events there and in expected order? Is it possible you get an "all notes off" message or patch change in the datastream?

[pl4sma2389]

The MIDI Monitor tool you drop in like another effect in the chain on the right - and it should show you what MIDI events are being processed (note, velocity, duration, controllers, etc>.) which often gives you useful information into what is going on. It's under Tracktion utilities, and is pretty simple to use.

Are note events there and in expected order? Is it possible you get an "all notes off" message or patch change in the datastream?

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that tool is available in 11 Free. I do have an active trial of 12 (which still has the issue), and that does have MIDI Monitor. Here's a screenshot of it:

https://imgur.com/a/NlnpUIc

Despite the MIDI timecode of the note on message being .005 (I actually have it at .010 in piano roll) and the all notes off message being .000, the all notes off message is still sent after the note on message.

If this is a software bug and not just something weird with my UM-1G or the D-550 + DX-11 + reface YC I also tested it with, that's just embarrasing software design. That really shouldn't be an issue.

[Watchful]

I use hardware often and have not experienced this issue with 11 or 12 Pro (the underlying software is identical to Free), but there's nothing unusual with the D-550 or the DX11, either...so not sure why this is happening.

The next thing to consider is how that pre-USB hardware is connecting to your system. Are your MIDI cables connected to your interface, or are you using a converter to get MIDI to USB?

[pl4sma2389]

I use hardware often and have not experienced this issue with 11 or 12 Pro (the underlying software is identical to Free), but there's nothing unusual with the D-550 or the DX11, either...so not sure why this is happening.

The next thing to consider is how that pre-USB hardware is connecting to your system. Are your MIDI cables connected to your interface, or are you using a converter to get MIDI to USB?

My (D-550/DX-11) is connected via its traditional two MIDI ports to a USB port on my computer via a Roland UM-1G: https://www.roland.com/us/products/um-1g/ as I mentioned earlier.

For a controller, I have a Yamaha Reface YC plugged in thru USB-- but I don't think that matters since that's an input device. If I use it as an output device, sending MIDI data to it-- the issue also occurs.

As for why it's occuring, I think it's pretty clear that it's Waveform, which is sending a All Notes Off message after the first note, cancelling the note.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Hmmm... tried with a VST rather than a MIDI device, and get

00:00:00.010 Note on C#3 / 49: 121 Ch: 1 90 31 79
00:00:00.000 All notes off Ch: 1 b0 7b 00
00:00:00.374 Note off C#3 / 49: 0 Ch: 1 80 31 00
00:00:00.500 Note on D2 / 38: 100 Ch: 1 90 26 64
00:00:00.500 Note on G#2 / 44: 91 Ch: 1 90 2c 5b
00:00:00.560 Note off G#2 / 44: 0 Ch: 1 80 2c 00
00:00:00.622 Note off D2 / 38: 0 Ch: 1 80 26 00
00:00:00.750 Note on F#2 / 42: 60 Ch: 1 90 2a 3c
00:00:00.810 Note off F#2 / 42: 0 Ch: 1 80 2a 00
00:00:01.000 Note on C2 / 36: 100 Ch: 1 90 24 64
00:00:01.000 Note on F#2 / 42: 100 Ch: 1 90 2a 64
00:00:00.000 All notes off Ch: 1 b0 7b 00

Interestingly, that first note shows up as start time of (1,1,0) in the MIDI editor, and it didn't get dropped or cut off with the "all notes off" message. Now, it WAS a VST rather than an instrument.

It also looks like:
- all notes off shows up with a '0' timestamp start AND end
- initial note got .010 added to it. Coded workaround ?