Dream Machines - Trigger different samples in slots

[ElevatedBeing]

I was actually super excited for Dream Machines, but when I began to use it, my excitement went down quickly.

Maybe a stupid question, but isn't there a way to trigger Sample B in a slot without moving the selection slider?

From the website:
" In addition, you can automate the crossfade between the two samples in your DAW to change sounds such as open/closed hi-hats or high/low toms"

Having open/closed hi-hats on the same sample slot, and the only way to switch between them is either move the slider manually or automate this in the DAW for each hit, is super counter productive in my opinion.

You can't even use some of the other slots and change e.g. the TOM slot samples for the Open High Hat sample, because they are locked to that specific type.

[GusGranite]

Link for anyone else like me who hadn’t seen the release info for this https://www.meldaproduction.com/DreamMachines

[jan-sandahl]

Yes, the lack of a playable open hh, and closed hh (two channels w choke functionality), and only one Tom is surely the weakest side of Dream Machines. There's no way around it. It's the 6 out limitation of MSF itself that invited it, I think. 8 channels would have been much better, even with only 6 out from MSF.

Apart from that, I LOVE the sound quality as per usual. It instantly became my goto. For fun, last night I compared it to Air Drumsynth 500 (which I really wanted at the time) and there's just no comparison! DS 500 is a toy, while DM has tone, body, weight, holds all the cards in the sound department. It's only the limited channel number that is the issue here, in my view. But, it sounds so good to me, that I find it hard to feel disappointed, lol. Don't let Melda read this!

But, an update of either MSF itself to 8 channels out (and with it the same to DM), or simply two channels added to only DM would be a huge improvement! We can dream...

[MeldaProduction]

Don't let Melda read this!

You know it's always some sort of compromise...

[ElevatedBeing]

But I was pleasantly surprised that the Dream Machines samples are also available in MDrummer.

Any plans to add more samples from famous “machines”?

[jan-sandahl]

But I was pleasantly surprised that the Dream Machines samples are also available in MDrummer.

- Are they categorized too (not by the music computer right now)?

[ElevatedBeing]

But I was pleasantly surprised that the Dream Machines samples are also available in MDrummer.

- Are they categorized too (not by the music computer right now)?

Yes, they have their own section in the “kit” tree, or whatever it is called.

[jan-sandahl]

Yes! Found them. Sweet! Thanks for tips.

[jan-sandahl]

You know it's always some sort of compromise...

- I'm curious...

Hypothetically, from a developer's perspective - would it be easier to expand MSF up to 8 lanes/8 out, or to double it to 12? Thanks!

[Starship Krupa]

I got a license for MSoundFactoryLE partly because of excitement around this, but add me to those disappointed to have only 6 slots in each "machine." I didn't read closely and figured that some of the "pads" would be doing double duty.

As a programmer of beats, for me the minimum for usability is 8 slots, each with their own MIDI note. Preferably with choking between hi-hat slots, and individual level and pan controls for each slot. The reason for this "minimum" is that the classic drum boxes had at least this variety of sounds. If I'm trying to program something to sound like a DMX, 808, or Six Trak, it won't sound like one without at least 8 slots (some might say more). You can't program "My Adidas" or "Posse on Broadway" with 6 slots (although you might be able to do "Blue Monday"). The most basic freeware pad samplers can do this.

Unlike others who have contributed to the discussion so far, I don't need 8 individual outs. I don't think there's "no way around it" at all. The number of outputs has nothing to do with the number of note slots; some MSoundFactory instruments have 88 notes and only 2 outputs.

Doubling up a couple of outputs is fine, closed and open hats and hi and lo tom (or whatever) can share outputs; it's not like my beats aren't going to work if I can't separately process my closed and open hats (or toms). Automation can take care of that if it's really necessary.

Lots of people use their DAWs' step sequencers to make beats, that's especially important in the absence of an internal sequencer (as with Dream Machines). It's impossible for users to program in sample changes via automation while we're using our step sequencer. I have to have access to all of the different sounds I'm going to use while I'm creating the beats. If I have to use automation to be able to use kick, snare, claps, OH, CH, and hi and lo toms, I'm just going to reach for another instrument, maybe load the samples up in Sitala or something.

I'm a drummer, the head guy at Meldaproduction is a drummer. Just as I come up with beats on the fly when I'm playing my "real" kit, I often (usually) come up with them on the fly when I'm programming them. I even sometimes program them by recording "key drums" in real time with my left hand on the General MIDI drum keys. Can't do that unless my sounds are all mapped to notes, not being switched with automation. That would be like having to record myself playing the hats closed and then overdubbing myself playing them open.

My request is, at the minimum, allow independent triggering of "Sample A" and "Sample B" via MIDI notes. Maybe a mode switch for "trigger Sample B via MIDI note?" That would take it over my usability threshold. More flexibility in which sounds can be mapped to which slots would be nice, as would hi hat choke.

None of it seems terribly out of reach for virtual drum machines hosted by a synth engine that (I presume) can recognize, respond to, and output 127 MIDI notes. An 8 sample drum machine with 6 assignable outputs seems possible, and surely no threat to MDrummer. I don't even usually use individual outs on my drum machines, virtual or otherwise; as long as the drum machine has individual pan and level controls I'm fine.

[jan-sandahl]

I fully agree.

[ElevatedBeing]

+1

[jan-sandahl]

I fully respect the super human task involved in the Melda plugins and project. I can't even begin to understand how one can create something like this!

At the same time Melda wants to make an instrument that makes all others obsolete (loosely interpreted from Vojtech himself), and Dream Machines is a "Premium Instrument" (which it truly is, in all other aspects, in my view).

It calls for at least NOT having major usability issues.

I'm hoping for an upgrade for DM, as the limitations are so strongly off putting to musicians and beat creators.

Meanwhile, I'm porting my fav DM to MDrummer, but it has proven to be a not completely straightforward task to get a 1:1 faithful sound translation.

[Starship Krupa]

At the same time Melda wants to make an instrument that makes all others obsolete (loosely interpreted from Vojtech himself), and Dream Machines is a "Premium Instrument" (which it truly is, in all other aspects, in my view).

It calls for at least NOT having major usability issues.

I'm hoping for an upgrade for DM, as the limitations are so strongly off putting to musicians and beat creators.

It's all the more frustrating because Dream Machines sounds great. I realize that part of that is the stacked samples, but another big part of it is the fact that it's hosted by MSoundFactory with its set of Meldaproduction FX.

Having a drum machine instrument was the tipping point for me in getting MSoundFactoryLE, but please, it needs to be a usable one. I usually dislike comparisons, but if MSoundFactory is supposed to be Meldaproduction's "Kontakt" even the free version of Kontakt comes with multiple fully capable drum instruments, complete with their own patterns.

Another thing in the matter of MSoundFactory and drums: it would even be useful to me if MSF had a GM mapped kit, no fancy UI or anything, just samples mapped to keys like SONIVOX' Blue Jay Drums. I don't understand why the content has to be delivered in a limited UI like Dream Machines.

[spencerlee]

I set up a file in Kontakt that has 10 channels of snare and 10 channels of Kick.
They are all on 2 midi notes allowing you to play all samples at the same time. I then assigned each drum to a different fader and allows you to mix samples together.
This is my amazing dream machine.
I can basically get any kick and snare sound I want.
Spencer