Which plugins are hyped too much in your opinion?

[Etienne1973]

Stubborn retro addicts (like me) versus stubborn music innovators. Poles apart and little in between.

Well, we're not supposed to be "versus"...
At least we have something to talk about, unless people who have everything in common...
You love this, I love this. Problem ?

Problem in regard that strict categorizations are against my sensible artist's belief in freedom.

[SamDi]

... this type of synths is just important for a small amount of mostly retro-stuff, but for most modern music styles they are not just not needed, but even counterproductive, because they are often hard to integrate in a mix, because of the fatness needing too much space.

That's not the case if you know what you're doing. We make modern electronic music and we use all kinds of synths, interchangeably. DUNE or Obsession, ANA-2 or bx_oberhausen, it make sno difference to us and nobody would pick which synth any of it was when they listen to any of our songs.

The type of synths you use, I would say are mostly pretty similar, Dune, ANA-2, Thorn is for me the same category of synths. And you are right. They are very broad in terms of how they can sound and support different genres.

But I do not agree, that synths are completely independent of genres. It's not primarily, what you can really reach soundwise, if you put enough effort on it. It's further a kind of workflow, how fast you can reach certain sounds specific to that genre.

Take Serum for example, it takes you seconds to choose a stock wavetable, modulate it, add subbass with direct out, put it through distortion, multiband compression and hyper dimension and you have your starting point for a fat wobble, growl sound. With Dune or ANA2 you would need factor 10, if ever possible, because AFAIK they lack MB-compression and expansion.

Otherway around in Dune or ANA you need seconds to draw in fat supersaw-sounds, or filter sweep sounds, these typical VA-synth sounds, while in Serum it needs much more time to sound them as good (if ever possible to reach it).

Pigments is good for agressive Psytrance grid and squelch sounds and appreciated in that genre, while beeing in other areas the second choice, because lack of warmth (but I do not share this opinion). Furthermore as you self know, it's unusable for making quick and easy bassline sounds.

Phaseplant is also good for laserish, wobblish, growlish sounds, but try to make it to sound as good as Dune for Trance-sounds or Diva for analog sounds.
For some modern sounds many synths are even not capable to do it, because they lack of modulate-able EQ, MB-compression/expansion and MB-distortion.

Yes and for our grandparents rockmusic was distorted and undersophisticated shit of rebelling youth and only the warmth of classical instruments in a classical orchester was "the real thing".

I don't think so. My aunt would be 108 if she was still alive and she was obsessed with Elvis Presley, even in her dotage. Jazz from the early/mid part of the 20th Century could be far more cacophonous than a lot of rock music, as can some orchestral pieces. My mother hated Dad's Big-Band Jazz a lot more than she hated the music I listened to.

Yes exceptions proove the rule. At any times there is innovative music, heard by open people and there are narrow-minded people, stating that the new stuff is cheap, just because they don't get the other territory the unknown new is emphasizing. Maybe it is, because they don't have access to the according drugs belonging to the new music, but that's another topic...

[zerocrossing]

I like reading about plugins--part of why I'm here. Keep on with the discussions of over hyped plugins. Woot.

I know. It’s fun, right? It’s like going to Vegas and window shopping in those ridiculous shops.

[zerocrossing]

In Rock, Blues, Jazz, World Music electric guitars or drums sound similar for decades

And thus timeless, and significant.

No really. Popcorn and Oxygene IV are just as timeless as In the Mood or Can't Buy Me Love. It's the songs that are timeless, not the instruments used on the recordings. And production dates all of it.

Welllll...
You could take any rock song from any era and put a band on a stage playing it with the same crunchy guitar tone and 4-on-the-floor beat, and it would sound just as relevant today as it did when it was written. But try that with a 303 and a gabber beat... they'd be laughed right out of the bar.

I’ve got to say that I’m with BONES on this one. I’m reminded of a band I saw in San Francisco in the 80s. Probably around ‘88. I had no idea what to expect. We were just out for a drink. I see the band setting up and they have a full on pedal steel, so I’m starting to think, “oh’ oh. Cun’tree!” But we were having fun and we stayed. The band was great. They were totally weird prog-rock style pop. Something like Talking Heads meets 80s era King Crimson. They made the pedal steel sound great in a context it was never meant for. There’s also the lead singer from Soul Coughing. His solo stuff is kind of singer-song writer style. Very different than the band, but he’ll throw in a 808, 303 or some other analog synth in, and he makes it work. I’ve seen him live a few times and no one’s laughing. Except at his jokes, which are sometimes pretty funny.

[BONES]

The type of synths you use, I would say are mostly pretty similar, Dune, ANA-2, Thorn is for me the same category of synths.

I rarely use any of those synths. I use Thorn sometimes, ANA occasionally but I couldn't tell you the last time I loaded up DUNE. I don't often need that much grunt so I don't overcomplicate things unless I really need to.

But I do not agree, that synths are completely independent of genres.

Of course they are, you just have to know what you're doing.

It's not primarily, what you can really reach soundwise, if you put enough effort on it. It's further a kind of workflow, how fast you can reach certain sounds specific to that genre.

That's why we have presets. I pretty much never create sounds from scratch while I am working on a song. It's something I do as a separate process so that I have a good stockpile of usable patches available when I need them.

Take Serum for example, it takes you seconds to choose a stock wavetable, modulate it, add subbass with direct out, put it through distortion, multiband compression and hyper dimension and you have your starting point for a fat wobble, growl sound. With Dune or ANA2 you would need factor 10, if ever possible, because AFAIK they lack MB-compression and expansion.

The problem with this is your thinking, that you must have A,B,C and D in order to make something. I can point you to dozens of synths that lack multi-band compression but still have nice "fat wobble" presets. That's where I'd go for a starting point and I'd be there in a fraction of the time.

Furthermore as you self know, it's unusable for making quick and easy bassline sounds.

I've stopped using Pigments for anything and I've replaced it in every song we used to have it in. I don't think it does anything well enough.

For some modern sounds many synths are even not capable to do it, because they lack of modulate-able EQ, MB-compression/expansion and MB-distortion.

That's why your mixer has slots for effects. To be fair, I rarely use them but that's because I rarely use any effects at all.

[BONES]

No BONES, it doesn’t work this way when you’re working with labels.

It does with the label I work with. We give them our finished album, they release and promote it for us. Your label sounds as f**ked as signing to a major, without the obvious major label benefits. I'd be looking for a better label if I was you.

When they started releasing songs, it was obviously classified as dance music, but never played in clubs in France. BPM was slower, the sounds were funky and 70’s sounding (they always said that’s what they wanted to do).

I listened to their first single last night and I gotta say, what came after sounds pretty similar to me, just more refined and better produced. But the best pop acts always evolve with the genre and it would be hard to argue that Pop has been anything but dance music for the last 30-40 years, from Rick Astley and Kylie Minogue to Justin Bieber and Katy Perry.

[jamcat]

This is why I hate the popular music. When I see kids dancing, I call the police.

[Scotty]

I would say about 80% of the Universal Audio Catalog is over-hyped. The marketing is very slick but the vast majority of the plugins have been superceded by others both in terms of sonics and in user interface. The economics of dedicated DSP cards in 2022 doesn't make sense. Even when on sale they are over-priced relative to the often superior competition. I say this as someone who own a lot of their UAD-2 cards and plugins, interfaces and actual hardware compressors and channel strips. They've gotten long in the tooth in the plugin department and are riding the nostalgia wave. YMMV.

[fmr]

I would say about 80% of the Universal Audio Catalog is over-hyped. The marketing is very slick but the vast majority of the plugins have been superceded by others both in terms of sonics and in user interface. The economics of dedicated DSP cards in 2022 doesn't make sense. Even when on sale they are over-priced relative to the often superior competition. I say this as someone who own a lot of their UAD-2 cards and plugins, interfaces and actual hardware compressors and channel strips. They've gotten long in the tooth in the plugin department and are riding the nostalgia wave. YMMV.

I agree

[_leras]

I disagree re: UAD.

They're delays and reverbs are still the best.

Even if people have caught up it doesn't stop some of the UAD compressors being fantastic. Manley Vari Mu API2500, the new Neve one, LA2A and 1176 V2 both great, oh and the Distressor....

[dionenoid]

It does with the label I work with. We give them our finished album, they release and promote it for us.

That is until you turn in your next album and it's all Spanish gangsta rap or Mozart's classics performed on panflute.

[DJErmac]

No BONES, it doesn’t work this way when you’re working with labels.

It does with the label I work with. We give them our finished album, they release and promote it for us. Your label sounds as f**ked as signing to a major, without the obvious major label benefits. I'd be looking for a better label if I was you.

You got it all BONES. I work with labels who work with majors, and I’m signed to one major. Releases are judged by radios and DJs before release during promotion, if they get good feedback, a major re-releases it and makes compilations, plays it on big radios, you get propositions for remixes for other labels, etc... Sometimes nobody cares and you have to start it all again... And of course if you’re signed to a label, you have to change your nickname if you want to sign with another. Playing this game since 2009. Funny, but pressure is there.
That’s the way I chose.

[_leras]

That's why we have presets. I pretty much never create sounds from scratch while I am working on a song. It's something I do as a separate process so that I have a good stockpile of usable patches available when I need them.

Take Serum for example, it takes you seconds to choose a stock wavetable, modulate it, add subbass with direct out, put it through distortion, multiband compression and hyper dimension and you have your starting point for a fat wobble, growl sound. With Dune or ANA2 you would need factor 10, if ever possible, because AFAIK they lack MB-compression and expansion.

The problem with this is your thinking, that you must have A,B,C and D in order to make something. I can point you to dozens of synths that lack multi-band compression but still have nice "fat wobble" presets. That's where I'd go for a starting point and I'd be there in a fraction of the time.

Presets or no presets, it's hard to deny that some synths are better at certain things than others, both sonically and in usability to achieve results.

When you make your own presets this is of course apparent.

Your preferred choice is simpler synths that have good sonic presence. Isn't that why you use certain synths, and not others?

But I agree we don't need to try all synths in depth to know if something would add to what you have. There's definitely a ramping up time that is not insignificant with a new synth, so sound examples and presets are going be a big help in choosing a synth.

Also, clearly, complexity usually doesn't mean better sound imo.

[Scotty]

I don't know why you disagreed. Seems we are on the same page. A small percentage of their total catalog (well in excess of 100 plugins) are worth having. You named most of the keepers.

I own all of their reverbs except Capital Chambers. I own all of their delays except AMS DMX Digital Delay and the A/DA STD-1. The others you mention I also own except the Manley Vari Mu API2500. Those are among the best and represent a good portion of the 20% that are worth having. I'd add the Avalon VT-737 to the preferred list. I own a pair of hardware Avalons and they did a nice job with that channel strip.

Even amongst the verbs and delays of which several I consider to be excellent there are diminshing returns. The Arturia Efx Bundle 3 are superior to several of those (not to mention the modulation category) and the best of IK T-racks 5 are also often superior and cover similar ground (comprexxor vs the distressor (UAD-2)... I'll pick the comprexxor and I own both.

I am not using any UAD-2 plugins in current projects even though I own 5 UAD-2 cards and an Apollo Quad. They persist to open legacy project only. I don't want to be tied to their ecosystem. Native is the way forward and where is VST3 for PC, resizable interfaces, wet/dry knobs? Even if you buy the custom bundles and get the plugins for about $100 each they are not competitively priced.

To be clear, the cards paid for themselves and they don't owe me anything but the writing is on the wall. They are far too slow in updating their catalog to native versions and they are too expensive even when on sale. I wouldn't encourage any new musician/producer/engineer to adopt their platform in 2022 unless perhaps they also need an interface and then they can select a few of the standouts that remain. They used to lead the pack in quality. With a few exceptions (several which you named), that is no longer the case.

I disagree re: UAD.

They're delays and reverbs are still the best.

Even if people have caught up it doesn't stop some of the UAD compressors being fantastic. Manley Vari Mu API2500, the new Neve one, LA2A and 1176 V2 both great, oh and the Distressor....

[briefcasemanx]

I think pianoteq actually used to sound better when it was much newer. I forget which version I tried, 2 or 3 or something, but it sounded like a decent rompler piano preset and I liked it. Now it sounds like an awful, phasey mess. It has a slight "nails on a chalkboard" effect where it makes my skin crawl a little.

It's kind of close to sounding real, but the way that it's off is awful an unmusical.