Studio One 6

[EnGee]

I’m the cat with a trumpet.

Not interested!

[Fornicras]

A local dealer sells the S1 5 Pro to 6 Upgrade for $128 including the tax, is this a good price or should I wait Black Friday sale from Presonus to buy it cheaper? (Below $100 incl. taxes maybe?)

[BONES]

Yes, Cubase is slow loading and starting. I don't know though for many tracks how that would be because my projects are small with 8-10 tracks usually.

Ours are similar and it takes forever. The good thing about S1 is that I can pre-load the whole set and switch from one song to the next pretty much instantly. In Cubase you have to initialise each project as you switch to it, which is comparatively clunky.

I'm curious to see how you're performing in a video, so I can understand your workflow better. I suppose you are loading only songs that has audio with no instruments, right?

No, we use VSTi for everything, all outputting live. Our live songs start out as the same project as the recorded version, with the vocal tracks deleted.

I need to search your website for a live concert you did recently. Are you the guy singing in the front or the guy in the background playing? Sorry off topic.

I do all the screaming, Sik does the live drumming, so I'm the guy at the front. The only video we have is from 2004, there are three songs on YouTube - DEADinside Deliverance and Blind. You should be able to find them easily enough. I'm not sur eit will tell you much, it's really poor quality.

Logic and Reaper are the fastest to start and load my 'small' projects. Maybe 10 times faster than Cubase and S1. Bitwig and Live are also faster than S1 and Cubase, but as my projects are small, so I only wait about 30 seconds to one minute, so no big deal for me while in Logic it is only 5 to 10 seconds.

Really? Most of mine are around 10 seconds in Studio One, unless they have GR8 in them - it takes 20 seconds to initialise that plugin.

[jamcat]

A local dealer sells the S1 5 Pro to 6 Upgrade for $128 including the tax, is this a good price or should I wait Black Friday sale from Presonus to buy it cheaper? (Below $100 incl. taxes maybe?)

If you wait 2 months you might save $15. But that might not include tax. And that's only speculation that there will be a 30% off sale on BF.

Is $15 worth the wait and the gamble?

On one hand, you might miss out completely.
On the other hand, you can get a hamburger.

[EnGee]

Ours are similar and it takes forever. The good thing about S1 is that I can pre-load the whole set and switch from one song to the next pretty much instantly. In Cubase you have to initialise each project as you switch to it, which is comparatively clunky.

Oh I see. So, Cubase is not that good for live performance. Good to know, thanks.

I do all the screaming, Sik does the live drumming, so I'm the guy at the front. The only video we have is from 2004, there are three songs on YouTube - DEADinside Deliverance and Blind. You should be able to find them easily enough. I'm not sur eit will tell you much, it's really poor quality.

Really nice unique style I watched DeadInside and Blind. Both are very nice songs. I like industrial and EBM songs, not my daily to go songs, but I like them and I still listen and watch them from time to time. Nitzer Ebb came to my mind when I listen to your songs.

Anyway, the videos gave me a good idea about your workflow. You do many things at the same time in the concert! You sing, control the computer and playing sometimes! So, do you take over some tracks (melodies or chords) when you play the keyboard? I mean, is this the reason you keep the VSTi and instruments active with their Midi written?

Really? Most of mine are around 10 seconds in Studio One, unless they have GR8 in them - it takes 20 seconds to initialise that plugin.

Well, I've just tested it now. S1 v6 takes exactly 30 seconds from clicking the icon to the start page (scanning and starting) and another 31 seconds to open my current song which is just 5 tracks for now and still in the very beginning (this is the first run, the second one is mostly much faster than the first). The song has Scaler 2, XLN XO, Phase Plant, Prophecy and external synth DeepMind track. That in Windows but similar projects in Mac mini M1 with Logic takes me maximum 10 seconds with Logic and my song ready in front of me!

[BONES]

On the other hand, you can get a hamburger.

I can get a hamburger, a BBQ Cheeseburger actually, for $2. $15 will get me some gourmet creation from a cafe or a pub. Given that choice, I always go for the BBQ Cheesburger. Similarly, if the choice is $145 or miss out, I'm happy to miss out. OTOH, paying $40 for the Artist upgrade was a no-brainer.

Anyway, the videos gave me a good idea about your workflow. You do many things at the same time in the concert! You sing, control the computer and playing sometimes! So, do you take over some tracks (melodies or chords) when you play the keyboard? I mean, is this the reason you keep the VSTi and instruments active with their Midi written?

Sometimes I play a VSTi, sometimes I play hardware but, yes, it's always something that's in the recorded versions. We often strip out a few of the less important tracks, the fillers, in live versions to keep the mix clean. OTOH, Sik always plays extra percussion over what's already there.

In the videos I was playing the K-Station exclusively. We made the decision a long time ago, when we first moved form hardware to computers, that we would always play everything live/realtime. It just feels a bit more honest, a bit more like a live performance, rather than karaoke. And there is always the possibility that something might go wrong, which, believe it or not, is an important part of the thrill of live performance.

Well, I've just tested it now. S1 v6 takes exactly 30 seconds from clicking the icon to the start page (scanning and starting) and another 31 seconds to open my current song which is just 5 tracks for now and still in the very beginning (this is the first run, the second one is mostly much faster than the first). The song has Scaler 2, XLN XO, Phase Plant, Prophecy and external synth DeepMind track. That in Windows but similar projects in Mac mini M1 with Logic takes me maximum 10 seconds with Logic and my song ready in front of me!

I reckon 10 seconds is about average for me with Studio One. As I said, GR8 slows things down a bit but, otherwise, I don't have to wait long. Some songs load in as little as 5 seconds. Also it has to read the project files and some of the samples from a microSD card, which is only USB 2.0. If I had everything on an SSD, it would be a lot faster. But keeping all my projects and all our bespoke sample content, which we have been building for 20 years or more, on an SD card makes moving between computers a lot easier.

[simmo75]

Is there another DAW that has the chord track?
I really love it in S1.

[andypryce]

Is there another DAW that has the chord track?
I really love it in S1.

Cubase

[dellboy]

As already mentioned, Cubase also has an excellent chord track. I use the chord track in S1 by dragging an audio part in to it to tell me what chords I have just played when I have been noodling and not paying attention, and find it a bit inconsistent. Sometimes the results are garbled and incorrect. Doing the same thing in Cubase tends to yield more accurate results.

[EnGee]

Sometimes I play a VSTi, sometimes I play hardware but, yes, it's always something that's in the recorded versions. We often strip out a few of the less important tracks, the fillers, in live versions to keep the mix clean. OTOH, Sik always plays extra percussion over what's already there.

I understand. Yes, I agree the less the tracks and effects, the clearer and more dynamics there are.

In the videos I was playing the K-Station exclusively. We made the decision a long time ago, when we first moved form hardware to computers, that we would always play everything live/realtime. It just feels a bit more honest, a bit more like a live performance, rather than karaoke. And there is always the possibility that something might go wrong, which, believe it or not, is an important part of the thrill of live performance.

Nice workflow, but risky. Well, more risky than recorded audio (no VSTi or instruments active) I believe, but if you have tested enough, then I guess it is ok. Thanks for the info.

For my S1 starting and loading, I think it is because I have about 300 plugins (Arturia V Collection and Effects, All Korg and several others from here and there) and those might have some heavy plugins that causes the starting delay. I really don't know why! Anyway, it is a very minor for me. I can wait one minute! In the end, S1 workflow is very fast, so that's what important and what really counts in time and effort.

However, I'm trying to be in Logic as fast as in S1, but I still have some learning and get used to many things.
Still, S1 Artist v6 and Bitwig 16 are my most used DAWs in Windows now. They are really inspiring and inviting to write (I also use them in Mac when I don't use Logic).

[BONES]

Well, more risky than recorded audio (no VSTi or instruments active) I believe, but if you have tested enough, then I guess it is ok.

That's why you rehearse. Once you've played a set through 20 or 30 times in rehearsal, you know it is going to be OK on the night.

For my S1 starting and loading, I think it is because I have about 300 plugins (Arturia V Collection and Effects, All Korg and several others from here and there) and those might have some heavy plugins that causes the starting delay.

My plugin count is 322, I think. It's definitely more than 300. Studio One itself can take a while to load but that's of no consequence to me. Even at its slowest, it's still heaps faster than 3DS Max, Photoshop or After Effects.

Still, S1 Artist v6 and Bitwig 16 are my most used DAWs in Windows now. They are really inspiring and inviting to write (I also use them in Mac when I don't use Logic).

Bitwig never really gelled for me. I always felt like I was just fiddling at the edges, that it wasn't made for what I want to do with it.

[EnGee]

Bitwig never really gelled for me. I always felt like I was just fiddling at the edges, that it wasn't made for what I want to do with it.

There are small things I like in Bitwig (beside the clip launcher). Things like Velocity Spread when I make some beats:

Screen Shot 2022-10-04 at 11.34.16 PM.png

I did one song (well, a piece of music) with Bitwig in the past. It was an excellent experience. I started with the Clip Launcher to put the main idea, then when I copy it to the Arranger, I continued there (closed the clip launcher and didn't need it after that).
Bitwig is easy and not cluttered. Shortcuts are easy to remember (M for mixer, D for device, E for editor, ...etc). However, navigation through the Arranger is not what I like. S1/Cubase are excellent with their shortcuts and markers.

Anyway, I don't see a big advantage for your workflow in using another DAW other than S1. S1 has a great simplicity and to the point. It has the best features from Cubase and Logic IMO and it could gather them well. It also has some unique features. I should spend more time with it really as I know most of it already

[skijumptoes]

Is there another DAW that has the chord track?
I really love it in S1.

Cubase chord track is a lot deeper than that in S1, as it integrates with the chord pads, variaudio and MIDI note colouring. On top of that, the theory behind it is more solid from a compositional perspective.

However, the polyphonic detection in S1 so much better. Something I really love about S1 is if playing capo on guitar it will read the chords much better than Cubase or Scaler. A Big help for bass/keys.

[abshet monkey]

So, to sum it up, who already bought V6 and thought it was worth it? I'd like to know the reasons.

I skipped 5, so the value was ok for me to buy the upgrade now. Between the two updates there are a lot of helpful new features and UI improvements, so I'm happy. To be honest though, I'm still exploring, so I don't yet have a full grasp on everything that's new.

A couple things I'd still like are the ability to pitch quantize live, and the ability to sync to external devices that don't produce midi time code, which is most of them.

[simmo75]

Is there another DAW that has the chord track?
I really love it in S1.

Cubase chord track is a lot deeper than that in S1, as it integrates with the chord pads, variaudio and MIDI note colouring. On top of that, the theory behind it is more solid from a compositional perspective.

However, the polyphonic detection in S1 so much better. Something I really love about S1 is if playing capo on guitar it will read the chords much better than Cubase or Scaler. A Big help for bass/keys.

Wow, yeah, it's pretty incredible! Thanks

Okay, Studio One 6 Pro is for sale for $200 if anyone wants it.