[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[] Peter:H []

If the spectral suite stuff is not an update but an addon, then why did they increment the version number of Bitwig Studio when releasing it

I think they had to change something in the core to bring in the new addon features.
In the future this could be independent from now on, my guess.

To all the haters:
If this addon was normally included in the update plan 90% of users would argue that this is not what they have been waiting for. They will wait until MSEG Modulator, MIDI comping, online collaboration, normalization and cancer curation would be included and that they paid the devs to deliver that.
Just buy an upgrade plan if you are happy with the features which are already included and for the next 12 months you get some updates. Bitwig is very fast with updates. Look what happened with 4.0 to 4.3.

Bitwig is my main DAW since version 1. This is a small group of people working at Bitwig. I think they have 4 to 5 devs. Maybe they need new money which is totally normal for a small business in a very saturated market. What would be the alternative, I can tell you that - increase the payment for the update plan. People would have the same discussion: They increased the update plan and I don't need Spectral devices I want .....

So you say that add-on development actually takes away dev time frome the 4 to 5 devs, which have been paid by upgrade plans up till now ... and maintenance of these add-ons and initial dev of further add-ons will go the same? Okay intersting take, but I read this as a confirmation that add-ons actually means sub-offs for the actual DAW in terms of developer time and focus.
btw - I'm glad to be called a hater, when being a hater means to be a little pissed about Bitwigs communication strategy and lack of community awareness.

[Dostoyevsky]

https://www.northdata.com/BITWIG+GmbH,+ ... B+120069+B

compare this with

https://www.northdata.com/Ableton+AG,+B ... RB+72838+B

Still quite impressive what the developers have achieved considering the budget.

[don_looney]

So you say that add-on development actually takes away dev time frome the 4 to 5 devs, which have been paid by upgrade plans up till now ...

I never said that!
Who said that those devices where actually made by Bitwig Devs?
Maybe they were made by someone else, we don't know, but the Witch-hunt is on.
That is my point. Look at all those hating posts. Some people argue about free speech

And when I said haters I did not think of you at all.
The communication from Bitwig was not good, that is a valid point and I think we are on the same side here. But I think people should really calm down and keep emotions by themselves. Let the dust settle and wait until the next update is available.

[] Peter:H []

https://www.northdata.com/BITWIG+GmbH,+ ... B+120069+B

compare this with

https://www.northdata.com/Ableton+AG,+B ... RB+72838+B

Yeah, I checked both only about a week ago, because even before this little incident, I was puzzled whether I stick with Bitwig or go back to Cubase. viewtopic.php?p=8524248#p8524248
I looked at many aspects... the financial aspect was like with the "company health" in mind. Btw compare the two latest balance sheets which shows no (fundamental) change... could be they are stuck on a low level (compare BW to U-He... quite the same numbers) and need to keep revenue coming in to keep it that way.

[Held]

Who said that those devices where actually made by Bitwig Devs?
Maybe they were made by someone else, we don't know, but the Witch-hunt is on.
That is my point. Look at all those hating posts. Some people argue about free speech

I mean, now's the time where a new beta should be announced if they keep the schedule from last year. People got all excited and got nothing instead. So if the add-ons didn't detract from the regular development, there should be a beta soon.

If the beta is good, people will calm down. If there's no new release for Black Friday, we know we've been screwed.

[jclosed]

The biggest concern for me at this very moment is...

What do I really get for the €170 yearly renewal?

In the past I could think: "Well I have already payed a big sum of money for Bitwig, but that yearly €170 update will buy me even more great stuff, so I think it's worth it" That kept me motivated to pay the (rather expensive) yearly "fee".

But now? I don't really know what I will get for that €170. The only thing that I know for certain is that it will not longer buy me everything like I was used to. Do not forget that this €170 is on top of the "entry" fee (initial purchase of Bitwig) you already payed. So what will you get for the hefty fine of €170? Only bug fixes? Only some common uninteresting stuff that's left over after the payed-for developed stuff? Some real interesting stuff? What is that €170 really worth?

Point is - I do not longer know what I am paying for. It's completely unknown. Everything has shifted from a cozy certainty to complete uncertainty. It's like paying for a lottery. You don't know what you will win, and if you are unlucky all the big prizes are handed out to someone else.

I only know one thing for certain. I am going to have a very hard time to justify that yearly €170 renewal when the time comes to pay up. I hate to pay money and not knowing what I will get in return. In the past that money bought me every update. Some where nice, some not really into my alley but nevertheless nice to have. But now? I really don't know if I get any nice stuff, or if all that really nice stuff will bombarded to a payed for "add on". Where is the "borderline"?

All I can say is that my motivation for forking out a yearly fee of €170 has been dramatically lowered. I really, really like Bitwig, but at the same time I do not want to feel like a fool for paying €170 for... Ehh... Yeah what exactly?

[SLiC]

It doesn't matter who made the devices, if they are 'parts of Bitwig' (loaded in by Bitwig) then they should have been included, that much is obvious. It's also obvious that changing the web site description of what the upgrade plan includes without telling anyone who has a current upgrade plan is really underhand.

All it would, have taken was some an advanced notice, and email to users saying what they are going to do, from when and why. It's hard to win back trust when you have (very) publicly been exposed as duplicitous, but any competent business would have taken some very public action by now.

[don_looney]

I was at the Superbooth in 2018 and 2019 and spoke to the Bitwig team. I think they are a team of max 20 people. The main guy behind Clap is Alexandre from Bitwig who started this format on his own in his private time in 2015, i think. Later on Bitwig and U-He joined forces to develop it further and bring more company's in. This is a very passionate small group behind Bitwig with no major VC's in the background. It is not fair to call it a fraud or rug. This is far from reality and not fair to everyone working at Bitwig. They always delivered new updates from version 1 until now and I think they will continue to do so.
We should stay calm and wait for the next updates.

[Dionysos]

We have to be very honest: Bitwig might be great, but it still misses a lot to be compareable to more mature DAWs.

Yawn, same old spiel. What Bitwig lacks or doesn't lack is highly subjective and dependant on what you compare it with. Most features highly requested by people in this forum are as irrelevant to me as this argument is in this discussion.

[mysterymachinestudio]

After the radio silence yesterday, it’s pretty clear the expectation at BW headquarters is to keep their heads down and pretend like nothing happened. Accordingly, I’ve drafted an email that clearly states my expectations about the remainder of my paid renewal period. I just re-upped On Sept. 28, well before they changed the language of their webpage, so I wanted to make it very clear to them that I expect that they will honor the renewal I paid for. I am hopeful they will do the right thing here and honor any renewals made prior to their TOS. Their lack of transparency around this is really gross, but I love their product and would like to continue using it.

I would urge anyone who’s currently under an existing renewal period to message them to voice an expectation that they honor the terms you agreed to when you made your purchase. I feel it’s pretty clear that, under EU law and certainly US law, a change in TOS after a purchase is made is not legal. It is completely reasonable to expect that the terms of service that existed when the purchase was made exist throughout the life of the renewal period. Please feel free to copy or modify my language below if you choose to write them. Sorry if the language is a little clunky. I’m not a lawyer, but wanted to try and emphasize that there is an element of legality at play here and that it is reasonable to expect they honor the contract we have all entered into when choosing to purchase their renewal offer prior to these changes in language.
---------------------------------

Good morning-

I’m writing with regards to your recently modified terms of service describing what is included with the purchase of the “Bitwig Studio upgrade plan.”

I recently renewed my subscription on Sept. 28, 2022 when the described renewal terms were worded “Future Proof: All software updates in the following 12 months are FREE.” On Oct 6 you changed the language of this statement to read “Future Proof: All Bitwig Studio updates in the following 12 months are free,” which I can only assume is an attempt to change in the nature of the renewal agreement, although your company has yet to transparently acknowledge or explain that to its customers.

I am writing to express my absolute expectation that you will honor the terms of the agreement that I renewed on Sept. 28, 2022. My expectation about the nature of the “Bitwig Studio upgrade plan” I purchased are based on all of the prior releases of content and updates made by your company prior to Oct. 6, 2022. Prior to this period all plugins and software improvements within Bitwig had always been included in the “Bitwig Studio upgrade plan.”

Accordingly, I expect that for the next year all software updates, not just those made within what you now define as Bitwig Studio, are included in the free updates available to me as has always been the case with your product prior to this most recent released update.

With regards to the changes you’ve just implemented, It is unclear if you will accomplish this through some scheme of tiered updates or some other mechanism, but I have every expectation that I am legally entitled for the remainder of my update duration to everything that Bitwig offers in conjunction with the core Bitwig Studio app itself, as has always been the case with available updates.

Your decision to change the language of your Renewal terms after I signed up in no way changes the legal agreement we have entered into as a result of my payment for this years renewal. After the date of Sept. 27, 2023, if I choose to renew again, I have no expectation that those terms would be available to me as I would have to renew under whatever current terms you have chosen to offer your customers, which is your right.

I would appreciate a direct acknowledgment of receipt of this message and also a response that confirms that you will honor the Renewal period I have paid for. I very much enjoy using your product and look forward to using it for the duration of my paid renewal period. I have high hopes that in the future you greatly improve your communications with your users and, while managing your business responsibly, you choose to behave more transparently and honestly with your loyal users.

Thanks for your attention.

[jensa]

https://www.northdata.com/BITWIG+GmbH,+ ... B+120069+B

compare this with

https://www.northdata.com/Ableton+AG,+B ... RB+72838+B

Still quite impressive what the developers have achieved considering the budget.

It's quite impressive yes, but starting from scratch as a green field project, with modern development tools, carefully selected mature frameworks and a small group of sharp people, instead of having to handle lot's of a decade old legacy (software) code to meet the then today's demand is a lot harder in many ways. Smaller effective teams with a clear focus starting from scratch is most often an advantage. Ableton has been juggling an old code base for quite some time, rewritten parts of it now and then... but it takes time to adapt, renew and refresh, which all the Ableton followers have painfully experienced.

That's also the reason the gold ol' Cubase VST was ditched in favor of Cubase SX which was based on their post-production software Nuendo. They had to throw out the old Cubase VST code base to move forward and catch up with the competitors, and that was a big investment in both money, time and resources for Steinberg. Cubase SX was released in 2002. Yes, I know, I'm old.

[don_looney]

The biggest concern for me at this very moment is...

What do I really get for the €170 yearly renewal?

If you see it the other way you get everything which is already out by the date you activate it and on top of that you get some updates for free in the next 12 month. That is how I look at the update plan.
If I buy Cubase X I get exactly that, nothing more.

[Chameleonman]

$P£€TRAL $UIT£ /
SPECTACULAR LAWSUIT?

[] Peter:H []

We have to be very honest: Bitwig might be great, but it still misses a lot to be compareable to more mature DAWs.

Yawn, same old spiel. What Bitwig lacks or doesn't lack is highly subjective and dependant on what you compare it with. Most features highly requested by people in this forum are as irrelevant to me as this argument is in this discussion.

Still it is a fact! Yawn, Yawn.
And another of my concerns even before this "incident" was - I don't see a vision, I don't know where BW is heading, too. Yawn. Will it focus on certain niche markets? Will it be heading to full fledge / general DAW. Will it be focussing the niche I count me in. Yawn. This adds uncertainty for me personaly. And if on top of me not knowing the general direction I additionaly cannot be sure whether it means extra cost for n add-on packs ... this is not a very yawn-free satisfying situation...

[Held]

The biggest concern for me at this very moment is...

What do I really get for the €170 yearly renewal?

If you see it the other way you get everything which is already out by the date you activate it and on top of that you get some updates for free in the next 12 month. That is how I look at the update plan.
If I buy Cubase X I get exactly that, nothing more.

If Bitwig marketed it that way, it would be fine, but they actively encourage you to auto-renew your upgrade plan or to activate it immediately after you buy it. They want you to pay for months without updates and now they even exclude some updates from your plan.