[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[mholloway]

this thread is kinda funny to me. (1) id expect people to be mad for a couple of reasons, mainly (a) bitwig set the expectation that all releases are included when buying the upgrade plan (b) bitwig stands for innovative sound manipulation options so from that perspective spectral tools can be considered core. (2) at the end of the day its just an 80€ DLC, nothing about the potential of your music making with bitwig has changed. people are acting as if someone took their last potato and now they are starving. if you really are swapping daws because of a (probably unfair) marketing move, you are either a beginner or should value your own time more.

Try applying some more critical thinking to the matter, then, instead of using absurd potato similes and calling people 'beginners'. Reducing people's reaction to "just an 80€ DLC", as if that existed on an island and not within the greater context of Bitwig's 'annual renewal' business model, is myopic and idiotic.

People are leaving because the future of the business model has been revealed -- and it sucks. This doesn't stop at one 80 dollar DLC. You think this single 'add-on' product is the end of it? Why would it be? People are leaving because they see a future in which their 'annual renewal' -- which has always been a bit costly -- will likely NOT include many of the latest and greatest Devices developed for Bitwig, by Bitwig. They're seeing a future in which the actual value of the Renewal is completely unclear. They're seeing that inclusion of new bitwig devices (Chorus+, Phaser+, Delay+, EQ+, all the Note FX devices, Convolution Reverb, and more) will possibly no longer occur -- new devices might be included, or they might require an additional charge, beyond the renewal plan. They're seeing an already expensive annual plan become even more expensive. And so they're saying: screw this model, I'm out.

This isn't hard to understand. But no, you decided to tell people who are upset by this that they must be 'beginners' and should 'value their time more.' ..... wow, congrats, you are clearly a superior individual and a head above the rest

[DuneArchitect]

In all seriousness, because of the language change on their website- could there be legal action against Bitwig, at least for those who had an active subscription purchased before Sept. 23 that was still active when this “suite” dropped?

So incredibly disappointing from Bitwig. They would have done better to release one of these devices a year to keep people on the update plans.

[Guenon]

From the EULA (which is installed on my workstation alongside the Bitwig Studio version containing said Spectral Suite) :

1.3: "This EULA also applies for upgrades. Upgrades include newer versions of the Final Version as well as add-ons which extend the Final Version’s functions in all editions except the Demo Edition."

2.5: the user "is entitled to receive free Upgrades for a period of 12 months, beginning with the registration of the license in the Bitwig user account. The User has the right to install and perpetually use all Upgrades, including newer versions of Bitwig Studio, which are being published during this period for his/her edition."

Also aligning with the EULA, I'd like to mention that even the change of wording on the website ("All software updates in the following 12 months are FREE" -> "All Bitwig Studio updates in the following 12 months are FREE") doesn't actually make it so that the Freq Split, Harmonic Split, Loud Split and Transient Split devices aren't a part of Bitwig Studio. Other devices installed alongside the core program, in exactly the same manner and location, are referred to as a part of Bitwig Studio. Also, for example in a Windows installation they reside in the install location \Program Files\Bitwig Studio\[version]\Library\devices.

Everything installed under the folder Bitwig Studio is, pretty much by definition, part of the Bitwig Studio product. And, again, in addition to this, even the EULA specifically states that the user has the right to install all Upgrades, also outlining that the Upgrades also include add-ons.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Bitwig users are unusual in that they had faith in the company enough to pay that company a year in advance for possible features. They now have no reason to do that, so why would they when this behaviour gives them every reason not to?

To be clear, you don't need to give them money before they have developed features that you want. You can keep using the software as is. Just to make the distinction from a subscription. Buy when you want something new. I don't actually think it's a great plan though unless bug fixes continue for all versions. At least I find it to be quite stable. But they should go back to major version upgrades like Ableton probably.

[skiltrip]

I'm not the first to bring this up, but one of the biggest tragedies of this is the plugins themselves never getting a chance to be judged for what they are, or bigger tragedy even, the developers not being able to celebrate their accomplishment.

Instead of being a huge moment, these plugins have become an albatross of sorts. They will forever be a symbol of the day Bitwig took a turn for the worse.

I finally chilled out enough to go ahead and demo the plugins, and they are VERY cool. It's one of those plugins you explore, you're not sure if it's that cool, then you bypass it and hear the original loop or audio region you were messing with, and you instantly want to turn the plugin back in because it's infinitely more interesting with the Spectral plugin on it.

Definitely not excusing Bitwig on this one, but kudos to the developers on this one. I'm almost tempted to buy them, but on principal (for whatever it's worth) I will refrain.

[mostexcellent]

this thread is kinda funny to me. (1) id expect people to be mad for a couple of reasons, mainly (a) bitwig set the expectation that all releases are included when buying the upgrade plan (b) bitwig stands for innovative sound manipulation options so from that perspective spectral tools can be considered core. (2) at the end of the day its just an 80€ DLC, nothing about the potential of your music making with bitwig has changed. people are acting as if someone took their last potato and now they are starving. if you really are swapping daws because of a (probably unfair) marketing move, you are either a beginner or should value your own time more.

People aren't really upset over this specific DLC, it's the implication that Bitwig get's to arbitrarily decide what's an "update" covered under the plan and what's an "add-on" that they charge more for. Under their previous mode of operation this wasn't something that people had to consider, if you had the upgrade plan you got anything new that Bitwig put out. Also the fact that they are retroactively changing the wording of the update plan agreement shows that this was a bad faith move and not just incomplete marketing.

[dayjob]

In all seriousness, because of the language change on their website- could there be legal action against Bitwig, at least for those who had an active subscription purchased before Sept. 23 that was still active when this “suite” dropped?

would be a huge waste of time and money and there's likely no legal recourse. even if there was.. who has time to deal w/something like that? or the money to do it? for most people it's so low on the priority list of things to be pissed off about.

anyone w/enough money and time to do some legal maneuver doesn't care and has paid the $80 for spectral suite and is working on music and not hanging out in forums complaining about stuff.

[perpetual3]

Indeed very cool plugins.

I'm not the first to bring this up, but one of the biggest tragedies of this is the plugins themselves never getting a chance to be judged for what they are, or bigger tragedy even, the developers not being able to celebrate their accomplishment.

Instead of being a huge moment, these plugins have become an albatross of sorts. They will forever be a symbol of the day Bitwig took a turn for the worse.

I finally chilled out enough to go ahead and demo the plugins, and they are VERY cool. It's one of those plugins you explore, you're not sure if it's that cool, then you bypass it and hear the original loop or audio region you were messing with, and you instantly want to turn the plugin back in because it's infinitely more interesting with the Spectral plugin on it.

Definitely not excusing Bitwig on this one, but kudos to the developers on this one. I'm almost tempted to buy them, but on principal (for whatever it's worth) I will refrain.

[Nemirov]

From the EULA (which is installed on my workstation alongside the Bitwig Studio version containing said Spectral Suite) :

1.3: "This EULA also applies for upgrades. Upgrades include newer versions of the Final Version as well as add-ons which extend the Final Version’s functions in all editions except the Demo Edition."

2.5: the user "is entitled to receive free Upgrades for a period of 12 months, beginning with the registration of the license in the Bitwig user account. The User has the right to install and perpetually use all Upgrades, including newer versions of Bitwig Studio, which are being published during this period for his/her edition."

Also aligning with the EULA, I'd like to mention that even the change of wording on the website ("All software updates in the following 12 months are FREE" -> "All Bitwig Studio updates in the following 12 months are FREE") doesn't actually make it so that the Freq Split, Harmonic Split, Loud Split and Transient Split devices aren't a part of Bitwig Studio. Other devices installed alongside the core program, in exactly the same manner and location, are referred to as a part of Bitwig Studio. Also, for example in a Windows installation they reside in the install location \Program Files\Bitwig Studio\[version]\Library\devices.

Everything installed under the folder Bitwig Studio is, pretty much by definition, part of the Bitwig Studio product. And, again, in addition to this, even the EULA specifically states that the user has the right to install all Upgrades, also outlining that the Upgrades also include add-ons.

I see how they will change EULA in the next update

[tempsperdu]

To be clear, you don't need to give them money before they have developed features that you want. You can keep using the software as is. Just to make the distinction from a subscription. Buy when you want something new. I don't actually think it's a great plan though unless bug fixes continue for all versions. At least I find it to be quite stable. But they should go back to major version upgrades like Ableton probably.

No, you can update whenever you want but because people felt that Bitwig were going to deliver the goods then they had faith enough that many, like myself, were quite happy to 'pay in advance'
Not any more, or quite possibly at all.................

[gExpectations]

this thread is kinda funny to me. (1) id expect people to be mad for a couple of reasons, mainly (a) bitwig set the expectation that all releases are included when buying the upgrade plan (b) bitwig stands for innovative sound manipulation options so from that perspective spectral tools can be considered core. (2) at the end of the day its just an 80€ DLC, nothing about the potential of your music making with bitwig has changed. people are acting as if someone took their last potato and now they are starving. if you really are swapping daws because of a (probably unfair) marketing move, you are either a beginner or should value your own time more.

Try applying some more critical thinking to the matter, then, instead of using absurd potato similes and calling people 'beginners'. Reducing people's reaction to "just an 80€ DLC", as if that existed on an island and not within the greater context of Bitwig's 'annual renewal' business model, is myopic and idiotic.

People are leaving because the future of the business model has been revealed -- and it sucks. This doesn't stop at one 80 dollar DLC. You think this single 'add-on' product is the end of it? Why would it be? People are leaving because they see a future in which their 'annual renewal' -- which has always been a bit costly -- will likely NOT include many of the latest and greatest Devices developed for Bitwig, by Bitwig. They're seeing a future in which the actual value of the Renewal is completely unclear. They're seeing that inclusion of new bitwig devices (Chorus+, Phaser+, Delay+, EQ+, all the Note FX devices, Convolution Reverb, and more) will possibly no longer occur -- new devices might be included, or they might require an additional charge, beyond the renewal plan. They're seeing an already expensive annual plan become even more expensive. And so they're saying: screw this model, I'm out.

This isn't hard to understand. But no, you decided to tell people who are upset by this that they must be 'beginners' and should 'value their time more.' ..... wow, congrats, you are clearly a superior individual and a head above the rest

good effort but this all falls under (1) broken expectations. the future implications are only guesses as the future is contingent. we dont know if this will reduce the amount of features planned to be added as part of the sub, even if it looks like it on the surface. you might still get added enough features so your sub will feel worth it. it still feels bad to everyone and is a bigger marketing mistake. still, the rational consequence would be, as someone else said, to from now on only buy the update license after seeing what was released.

the cost of switching daws is insane. the cost of not having spectral suite is miniscule. this drama is all about perception and emotional response not anything pragmatic.

also i nowhere said people cant be upset, i dont like this move myself. i said people who say they now switch their daw must either not have invested alot of time prior or dont value their time, this is because "cost of switching daws".

[gExpectations]

this thread is kinda funny to me. (1) id expect people to be mad for a couple of reasons, mainly (a) bitwig set the expectation that all releases are included when buying the upgrade plan (b) bitwig stands for innovative sound manipulation options so from that perspective spectral tools can be considered core. (2) at the end of the day its just an 80€ DLC, nothing about the potential of your music making with bitwig has changed. people are acting as if someone took their last potato and now they are starving. if you really are swapping daws because of a (probably unfair) marketing move, you are either a beginner or should value your own time more.

People aren't really upset over this specific DLC, it's the implication that Bitwig get's to arbitrarily decide what's an "update" covered under the plan and what's an "add-on" that they charge more for. Under their previous mode of operation this wasn't something that people had to consider, if you had the upgrade plan you got anything new that Bitwig put out. Also the fact that they are retroactively changing the wording of the update plan agreement shows that this was a bad faith move and not just incomplete marketing.

thats what i tried to capture under "broken expectations". or is "bitwig set the expecation that all releases are icluded when buying the upgrade plan" is "why people are angry" something else than what you said?

[liquidsound]

people who say they now switch their daw must either not have invested alot of time prior or dont value their time, this is because "cost of switching daws".

Have you ever seen someone with just one DAW?

Maybe a minority….

[pdxindy]

You haven't and can't make one good point about this change in the the update plan in favor of it

That statement is true. The part where you are wildly projecting your own instability is where you assume I want to.

The comments I've made about the change in the upgrade plan have all been negative. IMO, Bitwig has acted in an unethical manner. I have nothing positive to say about that.

But unlike you, my world does not revolve around their poor behavior.

[chrisstiles]

(2) at the end of the day its just an 80€ DLC

Well yes, although where an arrangement is commercial, people should free to argue for their rights regardless of the dollar amount - anything else is a license for all kinds of bad behaviour.

Honestly I think if they had announced this sufficiently up front, made re-assuring noises about the viability of the existing plan and maybe given a one off "goodwill discount" for this set of plugins to people with running plans you'd have got some grumbling, but most people would have moved on.