[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[hyperdeath666]

A bigger discount to upgrade plan holders would probably have worked - but I think some of these crazies would have still kicked off.

Dude. They breached their contract with us - they took our money and are not upholding their end of the bargain. This is spelled out clear as day in their EULA. We aren't "crazies" to be pissed.

I don't hate them. I don't want them to crash and burn. I'm not giving up on Bitwig. But I do want them to honor the terms of the agreement they took my money for.

[_leras]

People are leaving because the future of the business model has been revealed -- and it sucks. This doesn't stop at one 80 dollar DLC. You think this single 'add-on' product is the end of it? Why would it be? People are leaving because they see a future in which their 'annual renewal' -- which has always been a bit costly -- will likely NOT include many of the latest and greatest Devices developed for Bitwig, by Bitwig. They're seeing a future in which the actual value of the Renewal is completely unclear. They're seeing that inclusion of new bitwig devices (Chorus+, Phaser+, Delay+, EQ+, all the Note FX devices, Convolution Reverb, and more) will possibly no longer occur -- new devices might be included, or they might require an additional charge, beyond the renewal plan. They're seeing an already expensive annual plan become even more expensive. And so they're saying: screw this model, I'm out.

This isn't hard to understand. But no, you decided to tell people who are upset by this that they must be 'beginners' and should 'value their time more.' ..... wow, congrats, you are clearly a superior individual and a head above the rest

This is one set of plug ins. Bitwig have also said they will still keep the releases up. I have faith that they will do that and they are just saying, oh hey, this special pack is being done separately. Great plug ins, maybe developed with a third party - but yes, they didn't say.

If they don't revisit this and it goes further along paid options, then maybe people should consider the future.

But forking out for another DAW, that likely isn't as good - what sort of choice is that? Not a very bright or patient one.

Like you listed, there have been LOADS of great updates in the past year and you've not even included half of them. I don't think anyone can feel short changed. It's almost better that they're not holding it back for a later 5.x release.

[_leras]

A bigger discount to upgrade plan holders would probably have worked - but I think some of these crazies would have still kicked off.

Dude. They breached their contract with us - they took our money and are not upholding their end of the bargain. This is spelled out clear as day in their EULA. We aren't "crazies" to be pissed.

I don't hate them. I don't want them to crash and burn. I'm not giving up on Bitwig. But I do want them to honor the terms of the agreement they took my money for.

I hope they reach a reasonable solution too. Which would mean including in current upgrade plans. I can't see any other good outcome.

The 'crazies' that's just a few people tbh - that one account was really spamming nonsense earlier, was banned, and is back trolling..

[Phil B]

When did this conversation change over from a community sharing why they felt betrayed by Bitwig's new policy to a bunch of thin skinned ass kissers telling people they should keep their mouth shut because some fact pattern that applies to nobody isn't true?

[excuse my arrogance!]

But i'm happy with ableton live at the moment i gave Bitwig " the cool underground developers" their chance but they are not that cool anymore.....

crazies back again... new troll account.

I do not consider myself as a troll thank you....that's it not going to reply to you whatosever... i'm just an angry paywig customer.....

Just an angry paywig customer by the way is an understatement.......

[miiindbullets]

From the EULA (which is installed on my workstation alongside the Bitwig Studio version containing said Spectral Suite) :

1.3: "This EULA also applies for upgrades. Upgrades include newer versions of the Final Version as well as add-ons which extend the Final Version’s functions in all editions except the Demo Edition."

2.5: the user "is entitled to receive free Upgrades for a period of 12 months, beginning with the registration of the license in the Bitwig user account. The User has the right to install and perpetually use all Upgrades, including newer versions of Bitwig Studio, which are being published during this period for his/her edition."

Also aligning with the EULA, I'd like to mention that even the change of wording on the website ("All software updates in the following 12 months are FREE" -> "All Bitwig Studio updates in the following 12 months are FREE") doesn't actually make it so that the Freq Split, Harmonic Split, Loud Split and Transient Split devices aren't a part of Bitwig Studio. Other devices installed alongside the core program, in exactly the same manner and location, are referred to as a part of Bitwig Studio. Also, for example in a Windows installation they reside in the install location \Program Files\Bitwig Studio\[version]\Library\devices.

Everything installed under the folder Bitwig Studio is, pretty much by definition, part of the Bitwig Studio product. And, again, in addition to this, even the EULA specifically states that the user has the right to install all Upgrades, also outlining that the Upgrades also include add-ons.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Great summary.

EULA didn't change in 4.3.10 though:

Code: Select all

$ md5 eula*
MD5 (eula-4.3.10.rtf) = b46477e55a30f26fea40d9e892ad2771
MD5 (eula-4.3.9.rtf) = b46477e55a30f26fea40d9e892ad2771

Yeah, it hasn't changed in a while. Seems like they assumed they could do this without reading their own EULA.

Code: Select all

PS C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio> Get-ChildItem -Recurse -Filter EULA.txt | Get-FileHash -Algorithm MD5 | select hash,path

Hash                             Path
----                             ----
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.1.2\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.1.6\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.2\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.2.2\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.2.5\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.3\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.3.10\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.3.2\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.3.4\EULA.txt
4B429D7840FECAC1C91462A542852CEB C:\Program Files\Bitwig Studio\4.3.8\EULA.txt

[Hink]

But i'm happy with ableton live at the moment i gave Bitwig " the cool underground developers" their chance but they are not that cool anymore.....

crazies back again... new troll account.

I do not consider myself as a troll thank you....that's it not going to reply to you whatosever... i'm just an angry paywig customer.....

Just an angry paywig customer by the way is an understatement.......

apparently, and there are better ways than derailing threads.

[Phil B]

people are acting as if someone took their last potato and now they are starving.

You have an example of that? Or are you the one over the top exaggerating?

I could see why people in certain situations (eg only use one DAW, not made of money) would want to switch DAWs over this. Maybe they actually like paying the cash to keep supporting the company and keep current but are worried about sinking costs now because (1) they are concerned that the next time they update they will get burned even worse by a “specialized” add in like Grid 2 or MIDI Comping and (2) they see the customer reaction and are concerned that the company will disappear before the next Apple update breaks everything again. Not how I am current dealing with it, but certainly think it would be a reasonable position.

[gExpectations]

When did this conversation change over from a community sharing why they felt betrayed by Bitwig's new policy to a bunch of thin skinned ass kissers telling people they should keep their mouth shut because some fact pattern that applies to nobody isn't true?

can you elaborate on the term "fact pattern", im intruiged. whats a fact and how are they patterned?

[_leras]

When did this conversation change over from a community sharing why they felt betrayed by Bitwig's new policy to a bunch of thin skinned ass kissers telling people they should keep their mouth shut because some fact pattern that applies to nobody isn't true?

Betrayed. Is a very strong word. Quite accusatory. Quite blaming. Somewhat irrational perhaps.

I agree with many of the underlying points. But.

For me... there's too much mean spirited and quite nasty rhetoric being sent Bitwigs way. I really feel for the Bitwig team. I'm believe they have good values and best intentions, and have just misjudged and miscommunicated these plugs ins. They do not deserve this fierce response at this stage imo.

[Teksonik]

But i'm happy with ableton live at the moment i gave Bitwig " the cool underground developers" their chance but they are not that cool anymore.....

crazies back again... new troll account.

For the record that account was created in 2013.

Again emotions are running high on both sides but those who are calling others "childish" or accusing them of "crying" or "whining" are on no more higher moral ground that those who are venting their frustrations.

Are some people going over the top? Yes....on both sides.

[Echoes in the Attic]

To be clear, you don't need to give them money before they have developed features that you want. You can keep using the software as is. Just to make the distinction from a subscription. Buy when you want something new. I don't actually think it's a great plan though unless bug fixes continue for all versions. At least I find it to be quite stable. But they should go back to major version upgrades like Ableton probably.

No, you can update whenever you want but because people felt that Bitwig were going to deliver the goods then they had faith enough that many, like myself, were quite happy to 'pay in advance'
Not any more, or quite possibly at all.................

I can update whenever I want because that is the terms of the license. That is all.
I am glad however that those of you you were handing over your money for the next year of features have come to your senses now and will only give them money once they have added features you actually want. I think that's better incentive for them to make sure they are delivering features people want. So maybe somewhat of a silver lining in all of this.

[gExpectations]

people are acting as if someone took their last potato and now they are starving.

You have an example of that? Or are you the one over the top exaggerating?

I could see why people in certain situations (eg only use one DAW, not made of money) would want to switch DAWs over this. Maybe they actually like paying the cash to keep supporting the company and keep current but are worried about sinking costs now because (1) they are concerned that the next time they update they will get burned even worse by a “specialized” add in like Grid 2 or MIDI Comping and (2) they see the customer reaction and are concerned that the company will disappear before the next Apple update breaks everything again. Not how I am current dealing with it, but certainly think it would be a reasonable position.

I would say (a) everyone who says bitwig betrayed them (not in the sense of breach of expectations or even contract but the dramatic sense of a personal betrayal) (b) everyone who says they are going to switch daws over this, right now. I'm using bitwig since about 2 years now, i still have certain habits from Studio One that sometimes complicate my workflow. If youre a professional or simply make alot of music it must be a complete nightmare to switch. New workflow paradigm, setting up shortcuts, templates, routings, what have you!

Bitwig is suddenly not good enough anymore? What if they never release anything? The fact is (hehe), in the real world, nothing happened. It all happened in conversation about a product release. Bitwig is still the same as the week before. Now, reasonable are things like (a) i will only give money to Bitwig after i have seen they added something of value and not anymore on good faith or (b) i will see how this develops in the next 1-2 years and if I feel keeping Bitwig up to date is not worth my money, I will consider switching.

I also wrote Bitwig a longer mail of why I think this release was a bad idea but in this thread, expressions of very strong affect are quite ubiquitous, I mean, wouldn't you agree (becuase you asked for examples)? I'd say there is a lot of energy invested into something that means very little.

But alright, I will withtract from this thread with that, it has been illumiating!

[excuse my arrogance!]

people are acting as if someone took their last potato and now they are starving.

Yes no principles are the way to go.....if you do not starve what is it that you are angry about.....

You are right we are not starving....but i am angry because i feel that i payed money in advance for updates i do not get some kind of treated that feels

And in my opinion there are companies who have more sympathetic update policies, and Bitwig was that cool company for me.......with cool ideas. However with a dubious update policy which i agreed with. But then they came with add ons......i totally am lost with paywig now....

[astralcurrents]

I've been reading this since yesterday and at first I was upset like most people are. I don't think this was handled properly but honestly I don't care anymore. Earlier today I loaded up Bitwig I remembered why I like it so much and want to see it keep growing and leveling up to the final form DAW many of us envision it will become. Maybe this whole fiasco and backlash will be a good thing and they'll course correct development and be more careful with their users and supporters in the future. I want to give them a chance and see what comes next before completely melting down over a piece of software.