[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[UncleAge]

Why not release the suite as VST/CLAP/AU's that are separate and can be used outside of Bitwig? The perception of adding another stream of revenue would be there of course but I think calling them add-ons is causing more harm than good in the short term.

[tempsperdu]

"We're sorry for attempting to have more than one stream of revenue. We have made a very grave error and will of course not only make Spectral Suite available for free but also provide licenses for all coming addons to anyone with a ph.D. in armchair lawyering.
In the future all development roadmaps will be made public and have to be greenlit by KVR users before we proceed."

I'm not sure how being facetious makes for a convincing post.
There's nothing wrong with attempting to have other revenue streams if you do it honestly.
There would also be nothing wrong with treating your customers with respect............

[Phil B]

in 2.5 it goes on to say "he/she is entitled to receive free Upgrades for a period of 12 months, beginning with the registration of the license in the Bitwig user account. The User has the right to install and perpetually use all Upgrades"

Yikes! Sorry I’m behind if someone else raised this on subsequent pages, but may be interesting to map out when all of these changes occurred to the EULA. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just neglected to update 2.5 when they changed the upgrade definition to include add-ons. Sets up another “innocent mistake” claim. Or it could be that their decision to charge for add-on came after the EULA update and they forgot to go back and change it. Or they just got a little lazy.

But regardless, it says what it says

Does someone have a link to the full 4.3.8 EULA?

[pdxindy]

Nobody knows if anything is killing Bitwig... that is just random speculation and various assumptions.

So you are theorizing that this is either a positive or best case a net neutral financial event?

Seems unlikely.

I'm not theorizing anything. I don't know and nobody else does either.

[sbmongoose]

Not a link as such, but 4.3.8 can be downloaded from here, and it will be part of the installed package....
https://www.bitwig.com/previous_releases/

[SLiC]

I’m talking about the cacophony of refusals to upgrade period. To switch daws. That’s killing Bitwig.

If anything's killing Bitwig, it's their own business practices, not upset users. This situation was created by Bitwig, not the user base.

Nobody knows if anything is killing Bitwig... that is just random speculation and various assumptions.

So you are theorizing that this is either a positive or best case a net neutral financial event?

Seems unlikely.

Either way, Bigwigs profits fell a lot last year based on all the links on this that have been posted, so maybe they felt they had to do something new, perhaps as the end of year is approaching, they needed new revenue. Take a look, they were barely profitable last year- your profit is what give you working capital for the next year...

https://www.northdata.de/BITWIG+GmbH,+B ... B+120069+B

Some may argue that since V4 the updates have been quite small and specialist, people are now used to waiting for something they actually need before they update...

[Dionysos]

Why not release the suite as VST/CLAP/AU's that are separate and can be used outside of Bitwig?

That would probably be a maintenance nightmare. Not only would they be selling plugins, but plugins that can host other plugins. Now I don't really know if hosting plugins in a plugin is the same as doing so in a standalone host, but my guess would be no.

Either way, I think Bitwig devices are best suited to being used in the environment they were designed for. You need to be able to combine them with all the other devices to make them sing.

[xbitz]

Why not release the suite as VST/CLAP/AU's that are separate and can be used outside of Bitwig? The perception of adding another stream of revenue would be there of course but I think calling them add-ons is causing more harm than good in the short term.

yepp, like https://www.presonus.com/products/PreSonus-Hub "Add your favorite PreSonus plug-ins to your DAW of choice."



ofc. I can't even imagine the complexity of it, but there is example of it ^^^

[UncleAge]

Why not release the suite as VST/CLAP/AU's that are separate and can be used outside of Bitwig?

That would probably be a maintenance nightmare. Not only would they be selling plugins, but plugins that can host other plugins. Now I don't really know if hosting plugins in a plugin is the same as doing so in a standalone host, but my guess would be no.

Either way, I think Bitwig devices are best suited to being used in the environment they were designed for. You need to be able to combine them with all the other devices to make them sing.

I get what you're saying. But I'll add that they already decided to get into the plugin business when they gave this suite a separate serial number. And the hosting of other plugins doesn't have to exist in the separately sold plugins. They could have made it a feature of sorts that if you owned a BWS license then the integrated option would be available for download and use as well. Either way, it's just an idea.

[billinder33]

Nobody knows if anything is killing Bitwig... that is just random speculation and various assumptions.

So you are theorizing that this is either a positive or best case a net neutral financial event?

Seems unlikely.

I'm not theorizing anything. I don't know and nobody else does either.

Well, I guess I'll just be super crazy and risky here and say that when you have a 71-page KVR post of loyal supporters posting mostly negative comments and your biggest evangelists on SocMed turning against you for deceptive practices, it's "not good". Bold statement I know.

But you're right, no one really knows anything. Bitwig is Schrodinger's company.

[Phil B]

Not a link as such, but 4.3.8 can be downloaded from here, and it will be part of the installed package....
https://www.bitwig.com/previous_releases/

Thanks! Got it - so just to put all of the relevant provisions in one place if anyone is interested, here you go.

I'm sure they would argue "whoops, we're not lawyers and that was just an innocent mistake", but the EULA is the doc that provides the license to the User (in addition to limiting the User's rights on how they can use that license) and is the binding contract. This looks cut and dry to me that they breached the EULA by withholding add-ons from Users with active plans.

---------------

From End-User License Agreement (“EULA”) to Version 4.3.8

From Section I (definition of Final Version): “This EULA applies to all contractual relationships on the basis of which the recipient of the services (“User”) receives a final version of the software Bitwig Studio, Bitwig Studio 16-Track, and Bitwig Studio 8-Track (hereinafter also referred to as “Final Version”)”

From Section 1.3 (definition of Upgrades): “Upgrades include newer versions of the Final Version as well as add-ons which extend the Final Version’s functions in all editions except the Demo Edition.”

From Section 1.4 (odd, duplicative statement to the scope statement in 1.3, now using capitalized term for Add-On that is not defined - I think this is irrelevant): “This EULA also applies for separate Sound-Packs and Add-Ons. Sound-Packs and Add-Ons provide additional audio content and/or features to be used with the Final Version.”

From Section 2.5 (the money shot ... Users get all Upgrades and, under 1.3, Upgrades includes add-ons). "If the User has purchased a license for one of the following editions:
Standard Edition,
EDU Edition,
Standard Site Edition,
EDU Site Edition,
NFR Edition,
16-Track Edition or
8-Track Edition
he/she is entitled to receive free Upgrades for a period of 12 months, beginning with the registration of the license in the Bitwig user account.”

From Section VI.2 (Users that have not updated from version 4.3.8 have not agreed to any amendments in writing): “All agreements by and between the parties pertaining to their contractual relations must be done in writing.”

EDIT: If I was their lawyer, I'd probably argue that the defined terms are actually "add-ons which extend the Final Version's functions" (which I'd then try to argue does not include the spectral suite) and "separate Sound Packs and Add-Ons" (which I'd then try to argue does include the spectral suite). Under that interpretation, there is no breach of the EULA. This is very sloppy drafting - and I think that's a weak and desperate argument for a utility splitter device. But, if a court or agency has a consumer protection bent, I still think it's cut and dry. No reasonable user, having never even heard of the concept of Bitwig selling add-ons before, would read this and think there could possibly be other stuff to pay for.

[billcarroll]

Baphometrix is pissed because Bitwig did not offer an NFR license (like they did for polarity, taches, and dahs glitch). Just goes to show how important the DAW really is or isn’t.

i see that many youtubers like polarity ( like him a lot)
get many dislikes

so Bitwig should know that is not good for content creator

another yoututber called baphometrix (really good tutorials)
will dont use bitwig in the upcoming videos anymore

i think why so many users here are so angry is the fact
that you dont see this coming ,because they make so enjoyable features

so in short =
the grid= this is extra special = why this is not an addon ?
chorus+,flanger+, phaser+ = why is this is not an addon
delay + = here, too not an addon

and spectral is an addon ?
all updates before included creative devices
so it make no sense here

my biggest fear is that you have pay for presets or soundpacks in the future, too

Polarity, taches, and das glitch are certified trainers. All certified trainers received a Spectral Suite NFR.

Baphometrix is amazing and just doesn't happen to be a certified trainer.

[pdxindy]

Well, I guess I'll just be super crazy and risky here and say that when you have a 71-page KVR post of loyal supporters posting mostly negative comments and your biggest evangelists on SocMed turning against you for deceptive practices, it's "not good". Bold statement I know.

But you're right, no one really knows anything. Bitwig is Schrodinger's company.

Obviously the situation is not good.

And there's lots of overreactions and bs in this thread. Plenty of sockpuppet accounts posting inflamatory stuff and dramatic exclamations how they are selling Bitwig (who knows how many of those declarations are even from Bitwig users)

I say that not to minimize the blunder Bitwig made... but I also don't have an interest in joining a hate-fest that is urged on by dubious posters

[Cyoon]

Why not release the suite as VST/CLAP/AU's that are separate and can be used outside of Bitwig? The perception of adding another stream of revenue would be there of course but I think calling them add-ons is causing more harm than good in the short term.

I think the integration as Bitwig devices with all the benefits of the FX chaning etc. make them stand out from other spectral solutions. It's a key selling point imo.

[Phil B]

Here is an example of an email you could send to Bitwig if the last update you installed was 4.3.8. I haven't looked at any EULA amendments they may have thrown into 4.3.9 or 4.3.10, so this may or may not work for anyone who has installed those. I haven't decided how aggressive I want to be with them yet ... I would hope just seeing this online would make them change their tune?

Anyone see any issues with my interpretations here?

EDIT: If you agree with this and feel so inclined, absolutely feel free to use this in an email or copy and post it somewhere else. No need to link to back to this post or even mention it came from somewhere else!! This is an open source forum comment

EDIT 2: Note if you were to accept the spectral suite from bitwig and install it, you would be agreeing to a new EULA.
-------------------

Dear Bitwig,

Under the EULA to Version 4.3.8, we each agreed that “Upgrades include newer versions of the Final Version as well as add-ons which extend the Final Version’s functions”. The Spectral Suite, as a splitting utility device usable only in Bitwig, is clearly an add-on that extends the Final Version’s functions. The EULA goes on to state that I, as a User that has purchased a license for the Standard Edition, am “entitled to receive free Upgrades for a period of 12 months” from registration of the license. Since Spectral Suite is an Upgrade under the EULA and I am within my 12 month period, I am clearly entitled to receive Spectral Suite for free.

Please note that, under the EULA, we also agreed that “All agreements by and between the parties pertaining to their contractual relations must be done in writing.” I have not agreed to any amendments to our Version 4.3.8 EULA in writing.

Therefore, please add Spectral Suite to my account at no charge as soon as practicable.

Thank you,
[USER]