[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[BobDog]

I don't mind if they change the price of the annual upgrade plan as I'll only purchase one when I perceive sufficient value to me (this has been my current approach anyway).

I think in the end the Update Plan is the issue. NI tried this in 2005, I bought it because OS X versions were coming out, and NI was releasing some or most of them in upgrade, so Komplete Care 05 was purchase for a couple hundred if I recall. NI dropped the ball, development was too slow and pretty much NOTHING came out in 05. NI had to apologize and give away another year of upgrades as well as a copy of the new Massive plug in. They dropped their update plan after that and went back to bi annual upgrades.

Vaporware, selling what hasn't happened yet, failed miserably for NI in 2005, yet here we are with companies like Bitwig offering this as a model, then backpedaling and more or less (depending on how much of an ass you are about the EUlA) on that agreement, probably because they aren't seeing the return on the Update Plan they expected.

I didn't single you out to rant to you personally, but because I get the impression the loyal customers that bought the Update Plan at $160 are few and far between, a lot of us waited for a sale bought it at 135 or less, then waited until the very last gearlust urge to use that Plan was squeezed out.

So while the Update Plan if you were willing to just buy when your sub ran out regardless of whether the Plan was on sale or not, and activated it as soon as your sub ran out, is expensive, what most people have done could render a possible total of around $480 for three years (the average DAW cycle), down to 130 if gamed just right.

I think what we're seeing here is a bad reaction to the failure of the Update Plan to generate the kinds of income that Upgrades do for other DAWs. I didn't buy Boitwig for quite some time because the Update Plane was too close to NI's failed Komplete Care, and that failed miserably. I'm seeing a pattern here.

I think you have this right here, at the beginning of the UP most people were getting it every year, now they are not. In the future I guess there will now be even less.

Maybe time to move to paid "normal" major releases (yearly like cubase) and separate paid device packages (multiple per year maybe, run in any version of BW).

[Phil B]

I remember we had similar useless discussions when Bitwig went to 2.0. If the spectral suite would be part of the next update, a lot of people would complain that they are not interested in it and BW should concentrate on workflow and basic functions of the DAW. We simply don’t know what 4.4/5.0 will give us. They might lower the price for the updates and want to compensate with add-ons or whatever. All this is pure speculation.
The only flaw I see, is the communication between the company and the community. (Da ist noch Luft nach oben…)

You really see no difference between breach of contract discussions and people expressing that they don’t like a round of updates? Not saying you have to care about the breach, but it’s a pretty different type of topic

[pdxindy]

I think you have this right here, at the beginning of the UP most people were getting it every year, now they are not. In the future I guess there will now be even less.

Maybe time to move to paid "normal" major releases (yearly like cubase) and separate paid device packages (multiple per year maybe, run in any version of BW).

So Bitwig will cost $170 per year for a normal annual paid upgrade... sounds familiar

[pdxindy]

I remember we had similar useless discussions when Bitwig went to 2.0. If the spectral suite would be part of the next update, a lot of people would complain that they are not interested in it and BW should concentrate on workflow and basic functions of the DAW. We simply don’t know what 4.4/5.0 will give us. They might lower the price for the updates and want to compensate with add-ons or whatever. All this is pure speculation.
The only flaw I see, is the communication between the company and the community. (Da ist noch Luft nach oben…)

I expect the 12 month update will cost the same. Also, Bitwig said they intend to release the same amount of new features/updates each year as before.

So if Bitwig's statement is correct, then everyone will get exactly what they expected before all the noise started. Kind of ironic if it turns out all the fuss was over not much at all.

[ralfrobert]

I remember we had similar useless discussions when Bitwig went to 2.0. If the spectral suite would be part of the next update, a lot of people would complain that they are not interested in it and BW should concentrate on workflow and basic functions of the DAW. We simply don’t know what 4.4/5.0 will give us. They might lower the price for the updates and want to compensate with add-ons or whatever. All this is pure speculation.
The only flaw I see, is the communication between the company and the community. (Da ist noch Luft nach oben…)

I expect the 12 month update will cost the same. Also, Bitwig said they intend to release the same amount of new features/updates each year as before.

So if Bitwig's statement is correct, then everyone will get exactly what they expected before all the noise started. Kind of ironic if it turns out all the fuss was over not much at all.

+1. I didn't get rid of Bitwig, but bought it for cheap some days ago. As I expect that they want to stay in business, I don't expect the point updates to change much.

[ollie.rollover]

Will they make some kind of statement or apology today, that’s the question…

[kurt008]

I remember we had similar useless discussions when Bitwig went to 2.0. If the spectral suite would be part of the next update, a lot of people would complain that they are not interested in it and BW should concentrate on workflow and basic functions of the DAW. We simply don’t know what 4.4/5.0 will give us. They might lower the price for the updates and want to compensate with add-ons or whatever. All this is pure speculation.
The only flaw I see, is the communication between the company and the community. (Da ist noch Luft nach oben…)

(Da ist noch Luft nach oben…)

Da ist aber nicht mehr viel Luft nach unten...

I BTW don't "love" a DAW anyway, I can work with it, perhaps it saves me time and effort, perhaps ist cost me these resources. But as many people know: Similar to humans in our capitalistic "society": Each and everyone is replaceble. And... although Bitwig Studio still might be unique in it's features right now... who knows, how long this will remain...?!?
I do know, that I'm willing to have a powerful music and sound production system - and I will "optimize" it concerning my monetarian effort, says: As soon as I find something better with lower price and/or better development perspective (better software-creator - user - relation especially) Bitwig Studio will be replaced - period.

I'm not willing to accept self-importance - no matter who tries to establish this attitude in a business-customer-relaionship. And all those, who know Bitwig for a longer time, know surely what I'm addressing hereby.

I agree completely to the statements regarding 4.5 , 5.x,... and so forth. Wait for things to happen and then react - that's my way to handle things. On the other side I also admit: As long as I don't get an idea how Bitwig imagines the future of software vs. it's monetarization and as long as the questionmarks amonst these points become bigger and bigger, my efforts in looking for an alternative for Bitwig Studio will stay on a very high level - for a very simple reason:
I don't have the time to learn another DAW really quickly. That's why I need to have an alternative soon to be able to leave the sinking ship, if necessary. At least I want to stick with my open projects without the need of starting again from an comparably early stage.

As long as I know Bitwig there has never been a working communication between Bitwig and their customers. I do know, that there are DAW's out there, whose teams follow much different attitudes and who appreciate their customers (as well as their continuous feedback) obviously, while Bitwig mostly seems to see the customer as a necessary evil (on their mission of self-realization...?!?).
Needless to state which attitudes I prefer..., I guess.

[Firewyre]

Will they make some kind of statement or apology today, that’s the question…

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't say another thing about it. They probably should say or do something to regain the lost trust, but if they thought this was a fair move to begin with, and don't have any more to add than what they've already said about it then they may well just let the whole thing fade away.

[slackhead]

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't say another thing about it. They probably should say or do something to regain the lost trust, but if they thought this was a fair move to begin with, and don't have any more to add than what they've already said about it then they may well just let the whole thing fade away.

The best thing they could do, by far, is announce the next beta update with a significant amount of new and improved features that meets the expectations of a good proportion of the community. And the sooner the better.

[tempsperdu]

The only flaw I see, is the communication between the company and the community. (Da ist noch Luft nach oben…)

And when people are buying things on trust and that trust is gone, well...that's pretty much a major thing...................

[ozonepaul]

I don't think the decision makers at Bitwig really thought through how much their undefined/intertwined/uncommunicated "add-ons are new products" concept undermines the value of their upgrade plan subscription.

In my opinion it's very hard to argue for Bitwig's position that these add-ons are actually new products. Especially if the context of the argument is a promise that says "all software updates FREE" for 12 month.

a.) If the Spectral Suit add-on is an independent new product than why is it useless outside of the old product (Bitwig Studio)?
b.) Why does it need payment (subscription) for the old product?
c.) Why was it introduced as a point update of the old product?
d.) Why did I get the "Sound package update dialog" warning as if it's an integral part of my old product?
e.) If the official reason behind the Spectral Suite being a "new product"/add-on is that they're "highly specialized features" than how come eg. the Grid was not a "new product"/add-on?
f.) How come that to define this add-on as a new product, the old product's subscription's condition/description ("all software updates") needed a "definition squeeze" (to "Bitwig Studio updates")?
g.)...
It's not a single point of the above but the totality of them that makes Bitwig's position (that these spectral add-ons are new products) very hard to swallow.

[Dostoyevsky]

I don't think the decision makers at Bitwig really thought through how much their undefined/intertwined/uncommunicated "add-ons are new products" concept undermines the value of their upgrade plan subscription.

I'm not sure why people assume they are amateurs. It's quite banal: They actually had thought it through, they knew it's going to be a hard sell and that their customers are not going to embrace the changes happily.
For whatever reason they have concluded this is the way forward and worth it overall.* Just remember the last "fiasco" a few years back. Besides, they have hardly listened to the (broad) community over the years but one cannot deny they have got a vision where they want their product to be. For better or worse.
I'd be surprised to see them significantly back-paddle. Damage has already been done. Considering how this thing has seemingly blown up over the last days they already should have reacted for damage control. Week-end or not. They haven't.

* I'm putting aside the questionable legality of their maneuvers

[ozonepaul]

I don't think the decision makers at Bitwig really thought through how much their undefined/intertwined/uncommunicated "add-ons are new products" concept undermines the value of their upgrade plan subscription.

I'm not sure why people assume they are amateurs. It's quite banal...it's worth it overall.

It's possible that you're right but I highly doubt it. Eg. seeing them already lowering the price of these Spectral add-ons from $99 (full) /$79 (sale) to $30 (if you buy it together with your subscription update plan) it tells me they completely miscalculated the potential user reactions and misjudged the situation and it's financial consequences. I really do think that their "add-ons are new independent products" concept bites way deeper in the value of their upgrade plan than what they thought/planned.

[] Peter:H []

I don't think the decision makers at Bitwig really thought through how much their undefined/intertwined/uncommunicated "add-ons are new products" concept undermines the value of their upgrade plan subscription.

I'm not sure why people assume they are amateurs. It's quite banal: They actually had thought it through […]

No, even if they had thought it thru, they executed it as if they were braindead idiots. they might be the utmost DSP Nerds, but feeling and listening to community... preparing such a change... You mentioned the previous disaster. And second they are riding the "we all are an extraordinary community" thing...
What I wrote on facebook after thinking 5 minutes about it... quote:
I tell you how I would have done it...
1. We are happy to announce our upcoming release of bitwig 4.4
2. With the release we will change the upgrade policy a little which allows us to sell add-ons.
3. Let us explain in detail what add-ons mean and what not by giving you some insights in the core stream which will include for instance features A, B, C in the next releases.
4. To make the change as seamless as possible and honouring your years long loyalty - for every upgrade plan you bought before <date> you are able to buy an add-on for a tremendously reduced price (up to 4 reduced add-ons possible)...
5. Why we do it. We've kept upgrade price the same for years but figuered we can now either increase it for all users or keep it as it is - even amidst a skyrocketing inflation - and charge extra for very specialized addons. We are a company and as such we need revenue to grow together with you and provide many more cool features... And we don't want to push out these specialized tools as core - we listen and saw that there were many user disappointed by some releases.
6. Yada yada yada
7. Our promise - we get into closer contact with our great community and try to shape the future of bitwig together with you.
Bitwig - you can hire me, if you need some help ... just kidding.
---
this communication shows respect (!!) to loyal (!!) customers. They - though riding the cozy comunity thing - show us the middle finger ... and the worst thing is, that they even now don't communicate with their previously loyal fan base...

[perpetual3]

That’s exactly my point - I’m not the one conflating outrage with relationships. It’s others conflating their relationship with Bitwig to personal relationships - in this very thread, someone analogized staying with Bitwig to remaining in a toxic romantic relationship. Like I said, if their business practices matter more than your enjoyment of the DAW, then move on. There are countless alternatives to Nestle. In my opinion there are no alternatives to Bitwig. But for YOU there may be.

Said it before, and I’ll say it again. I love the DAW and what I can do with it more than this poorly communicated and mismanaged policy shift. If that ethical aspects of the business practice matter more, then by all means stop using the DAW. And if another DAW comes around which I prefer more than Bitwig, I won’t hesitate to go to that DAW. Because I don’t view myself as having a relationship with Bitwig as a company. I view myself as using Bitwig as a tool, as an instrument for me to create my music. If a better tool comes around, I’ll use that. Right now, Bitwig does it better than all the rest for me.

Some people boycott Nestle, they might like the chocolate, but the companies unethical policies make buying it impossible to bear. More succinctly do not conflate outrage with a personal relationship. You have a business relationship, you pay them for a product, and when a business does something shady and I have any choice about it at all, I stop doing business with that company until they change that policy. This is not about "relationships", those of us that can and will leave if nothing is done are not married to the DAW.