They did the right thing, now show support!

[simmo75]

I agree with Teksonic here, you don’t reward bad behavior, do you.

[pdxindy]

I agree with Teksonic here, you don’t reward bad behavior, do you.

Sometimes... if they are pretty enough! hehehe (thinking of my kitties)

[JsinOwl]

I agree with Teksonic here, you don’t reward bad behavior, do you.

My point is, so don't. But why try to convince other people not to? If that's what people want to do, so what? People giving money to Bitwig literally helps everyone. Live and let live. Say your peace and move on. This thread which started as a feel good, Bitwig did the right thing, let's show them some support topic has been dragged into the mud, and for what? To what end? To stop people supporting a product we all love? To stop someone buying a tote bag for reasons deemed inappropriate? That's messed up.

[simmo75]

I agree with Teksonic here, you don’t reward bad behavior, do you.

My point is, so don't. But why try to convince other people not to? If that's what people want to do, so what? People giving money to Bitwig literally helps everyone. Live and let live. Say your peace and move on. This thread which started as a feel good, Bitwig did the right thing, let's show them some support topic has been dragged into the mud, and for what? To what end? To stop people supporting a product we all love? To stop someone buying a tote bag for reasons deemed inappropriate? That's messed up.

I agree Bitwig totally did the right thing, they had to.

I also agree that it’s pointless carrying on any mud slinging, 100%.

But, praising them for causing all of that, that’s just as pointless.

[pdxindy]

But, praising them for causing all of that, that’s just as pointless.

I don't remember a single person praising them for causing it.

[simmo75]

But, praising them for causing all of that, that’s just as pointless.

I don't remember a single person praising them for causing it.

What I mean is, there’s a few people that are now saying “now go and buy the upgrade to show support” and other ridiculous shit like “I’m going to buy a tee shirt to show my support”. It’s the same thing.

It’s awesome they did the right thing but that attitude just bizarre to me, and kind of praising bad behavior.

[FakeNatty]

What I mean is, there’s a few people that are now saying “now go and buy the upgrade to show support” and other ridiculous shit like “I’m going to buy a tee shirt to show my support”. It’s the same thing.

It’s awesome they did the right thing but that attitude just bizarre to me, and kind of praising bad behavior.

These people are the reason why Bitwig thought they can have a chance at selling add on on top of upgrade plans.

They unintentionally reinforce companies to make these mistakes again and again.

[ghettosynth]

But, praising them for causing all of that, that’s just as pointless.

I don't remember a single person praising them for causing it.

He's implying that this thread is doing exactly that. It is, no? They created a problem, and then corrected the problem. Ok. Saying "you did the right thing, good for you" is a form of praise.

[machinesworking]

What I mean is, there’s a few people that are now saying “now go and buy the upgrade to show support” and other ridiculous shit like “I’m going to buy a tee shirt to show my support”. It’s the same thing.

It’s awesome they did the right thing but that attitude just bizarre to me, and kind of praising bad behavior.

These people are the reason why Bitwig thought they can have a chance at selling add on on top of upgrade plans.

They unintentionally reinforce companies to make these mistakes again and again.

Holy crap that’s some dense logic. Personally my public record stands for itself, I railed against buying the spectral suite, said that if they did not rectify the situation I would ditch Bitwig entirely, and when they did the right thing I now advocate for continuing to support them, because I like their product. Again it’s a company, it’s not a person, your son or your dog. It’s a collective business venture restricted by a vision and a need to make money.

You are not training them to do the right thing, putting them on a short leash so to speak is counterproductive to them succeeding, which if you like the product should matter to you. If you don’t care about that, or are only in it for the drama just stop.

[FakeNatty]

Holy crap that’s some dense logic.

That's why people need to realize this.

[simmo75]

But, praising them for causing all of that, that’s just as pointless.

I don't remember a single person praising them for causing it.

He's implying that this thread is doing exactly that. It is, no? They created a problem, and then corrected the problem. Ok. Saying "you did the right thing, good for you" is a form of praise.

Exactly!
Some of these Bitwig disciples are so blinded by their orange glasses, they lose all common sense it seems.

[pdxindy]

But, praising them for causing all of that, that’s just as pointless.

I don't remember a single person praising them for causing it.

He's implying that this thread is doing exactly that. It is, no? They created a problem, and then corrected the problem. Ok. Saying "you did the right thing, good for you" is a form of praise.

Uhh... Saying you did the right thing, good for you, is praising that they corrected the problem, not praising them for causing it.

I don't remember a single person saying to Bitwig, "I am so glad you caused all this mess, good job". Well, maybe some Ableton supporters said that

[ghettosynth]

But, praising them for causing all of that, that’s just as pointless.

I don't remember a single person praising them for causing it.

He's implying that this thread is doing exactly that. It is, no? They created a problem, and then corrected the problem. Ok. Saying "you did the right thing, good for you" is a form of praise.

Uhh... Saying you did the right thing, good for you, is praising that they corrected the problem, not praising them for causing it.

Parent is implying that this thread is praise for causing a problem, despite the fact that it was later corrected. Whether that's precise or not with respect to your statement, I don't care, I'm not interested in a semantics duel. I'm just saying I get the point. He's rejecting the idea that you should reward someone who corrected an error that they themselves caused.

We don't do that in general, no? If you shoplift, get caught, and then later go back and say "I'm sorry, I stole this and I would like to pay for it," the courts might weigh your contrition in some sense, however, they're not going to see that as sufficient mitigation for all of the punishment that they think that you deserve. Never mind that I'm not on board with punishment as primary corrective measure; however, we shouldn't be surprised that there is a view that perceived corporate moral misbehavior triggers, at minimum, a tit for tat retaliatory approach.

You guys knock yourselves out over this. I'd like to reward my favorite DAW vendor who has never in their existence made such a mistake, but, I don't think that they care, and I suspect that it will be about two years or so before they expect more money from me.

[simmo75]

pdxindy, I’m not arguing with you anymore.
I think you totally understand what was meant and are choosing to be argumentative.

[machinesworking]

Copy pasted my reply from another forum, because I get tired of repeating myself.


I’ve been an NI customer since Komplete 2, great products, Reaktor and Kontakt have little real competition, But the company NI? They’ve deprecated more products I’ve owned from them than I currently own from them, including hardware they made that’s now incompaible with modern OS’s. I’m not at all a fan of their marketing, CEO decision making or the direction they headed in recently, but that has zero to do with whether a Kontakt is a good product or not. It has nothing to do with the quality of the work put out by their developers etc. I like supporting companies that have great policies, mostly those companies are expensive, Fabfilter, U-He, DMG, none of them sell things at bargain prices etc.

Bitwig made one mistake, they rectified it when people spoke up, I hardly consider at the level of NI, iZotope and IK who flash sale all the time, release upgrades that should be updates, balk on supporting Apple Silicon, charge for downloads, have insane or weird upgrade pricing etc. etc. I also own products from those companies because the developers working for them make great software.

It’s not hard to figure out, it’s the product that matters, not the business practices of the company, of course if the company puts two middle fingers up in the air and won’t back down then yeah, don’t bother with the product. I don’t see that here.

The whole concept of reducing a company with 30 people down to the decision of the CEO and maybe two other people if that, of acting like a company is a single individual with a single intent is just ridiculous to me.

I'm also not a fan of Calvinism, of punitive measures in general. It's stupid and it provably doesn't work. If that's how you roll fine I guess, but you're living in the past. Flatly, studies have shown again and again that punitive measures do little to nothing to deter bad behavior compared to more rational measures, like addressing the issue and forgiveness.