If you could have only one synth, what would you choose?

[Michael L]

Klassik 106 is a wavetable-based replication of the Juno 106 that uses the Kontakt wavetable engine:



Uncle E mentioned it above. Pretty cool synth!

[whyterabbyt]

You might want to talk to 8Dio, Spitfire, and I could go on and on and on about basically every company that requires Kontakt to run their VIs. Not only CAN Kontakt host VIs, THAT IS ITS ENTIRE PURPOSE.

You could go on and on about it, but none of those products are actually Virtual Instruments by the accepted definition, whilst Kontakt is.

You seem to be confusing marketing with the actual facts.

Kontakt's entire purpose is being a Virtual Instrument that play back samples. Your argument appears to be that as soon as even a single sample is loaded into Kontakt, that sample magically becomes a Virtual Instrument in its own right.
Maybe if you even slightly understood how software works, you'd not be so confused.

Kontakt instruments, however are not software,

omg dude. You can't be serious. So you're saying they're hardware? Really?[/quote]

Which bit of me explaining that they are data was too difficult for you to follow?

A 'Kontakt instrument' is nothing more than a synonym for 'sampleset' or 'preset' or 'patch'. They cannot generate sound in and of themselves.

That's "wrong." So Massive and Absynth are just "presets" or "patches?" Ah sorry, no.

Yes it is indeed wrong. And a pathetic strawman. Massive and Absynth are software, and Virtual Instruments, exactly as Kontakt is. And their presets and patches are data, same as Kontakt instruments are.

The fact you're having to throw up such crass and stupid fallacies pretty much indicates how poor your argument is.

[whyterabbyt]

That's cool. Let me extend "my definition": a synth waveform is a shape, defined continously, for every point of time.
That's why analog oscs don't alias.

That's cool. Lets correct your definition : an analog synth's waveform is a is a shape, defined continously, for every point of time.
That's why analog oscs don't alias.

As long as an osc can generate a continuous shape from a moderate amount of points, it's a synth osc.

Obviously digital oscillators cannot do this, because they do not operate continuously.

Or if a synth strives to generate a contionous shape, like analog synth emulations or digital synths - still a synth, in my book.

'Strive' isnt a technical term, so lets just correct that to

'If a synth doesnt generate a continuous shape, then actually, its still a synth'

Not sure whether reading the shape out of a data table counts as 'striving' to you, but it is how its predominantly done, btw.

A good reference for that would be Chamberlain, 'Musical Applications of Microprocessors', 1985, 'Table Lookup Method' section starting page 424, or the sourcecode for something like Csound or RTCmix. Or any beginner tutorial on learning how to code an oscillator.

Samplers don't generate a continous waveforms from 3 (or more) points or formulas, they use recorded sounds, with lots of discrete amplitude values.

Most oscillators 'striving' to produce continuous waveforms don't generate a continous waveforms from 3 (or more) points or formulas, they use stored sounds, with lots of discrete amplitude values.

That's why many VIs (e.g. Dune 3 or ANA 2) have sample oscs and synths oscs. They a different oscs.

Well, no actually. They do have sample and synth OSCs, but almost certainly separate them for the end-user, not for the reason you claim (this 'striving' thing)

Unless you want to provide hard evidence that the underlying code is never even slightly the same, that no sample-lookup is involved in these 'striving' oscillators, of course.

So far I stand my point.

That's nice, but just so you know, it was rather poorly argued, and inadequately supported.

Otherwise, you know, I have some arguments to prove that a crocodile is wider than longer, but usually it's not required on reptile forums.

Uhuh. Im hoping that sounded a lot cleverer in your head than it actually is in real life.

[Dencheg]

"Strive" is a technical term for those who don't seek to prove that stars and planets are the same or similar stuff. You know, like x -> 0 or y -> inf in math notation, where 0 or inf replaced with "good enough" for practical application).

But good luck with stretching algos in Sylenth and fiddling with supersaws or single-cycle alias-free waveforms in SP1200

[Dencheg]

That's cool. Let me extend "my definition": a synth waveform is a shape, defined continously, for every point of time.
That's why analog oscs don't alias.
As long as an osc can generate a continuous shape from a moderate amount of points, it's a synth osc.
Or if a synth strives to generate a contionous shape, like analog synth emulations or digital synths - still a synth, in my book.

Samplers don't generate a continous waveforms from 3 (or more) points or formulas, they use recorded sounds, with lots of discrete amplitude values.

that’s brilliant. you’ve now excluded all digital synths - hardware or software - from the list of possible synths. your favourite synth, viper, is now not a synth. congratulations. great job.

on top of completely misunderstanding nyquist’s theorem.

do you do encores?

No, you've omitted the sentence with "strive to appear continous", by which I meant the theorem. It's right there, justr read it.
I assume, your aim was to appear smart. It's always a good aim, I'll agree on this with you.

[Dencheg]

Most oscillators 'striving' to produce continuous waveforms don't generate a continous waveforms from 3 (or more) points or formulas, they use stored sounds, with lots of discrete amplitude values.

Here you go. You can continue from here by yourself, playing around with "most oscillators" and "lots of..."

[whyterabbyt]

But good luck with stretching algos in Sylenth and fiddling with supersaws or single-cycle alias-free waveforms in SP1200

Are you actually trying to claim that because a thing cant be done in a specific device, then it couldnt be done at all?

Because Im pretty sure someone could get stretching algos in Sylenth if they had access to the source code.

Why not try 'But good luck with playing back samples in a Blofeld. All you have to do is pay for an SL license to enable the code that's already in there'

That would be kinda apropos.

[Dencheg]

Are you actually trying to claim that because a thing cant be done in a specific device, then it couldnt be done at all?

Choose any other sampler to generate waveforms or any other synth to play samples, that's fine by me

[whyterabbyt]

PPG Waveterm

Adding the rackmount Waveterm computer terminal to the PPG system provides even more control and more features, sampling being the main one. The original Waveterm A provided 8‑bit sampling, while the 'improved' Waveterm B offered the dizzy heights of 12‑bit sampling. The maximum sampling time, however, is extremely short — three seconds

So there you have it folks. As soon as you added a Waveterm to a PPG it was no longer a synth...

[whyterabbyt]

Are you actually trying to claim that because a thing cant be done in a specific device, then it couldnt be done at all?

Choose any other sampler to generate waveforms or any other synth to play samples, that's fine by me

So you are actually trying to claim that because a thing cant be done in a specific device, then it couldnt be done at all.

[whyterabbyt]

<gameshow host>Roll up folks, its Synth or sampler time...</gameshow host>

Since synths cant ever play samples, and samplers cant ever 'generate waveforms' which of these are which?

Alchemy?
Iris2?
Pigments3?
Concept2?
Reaktor6?
Rhino?
Dimension Pro?
Blofeld?
Blofeld SL?
PPG waveterm?
Nord Wave?
Tasty Chips GR-1?
Emu Morpheus?

[vurt]

barry truax, mentioned earlier, popped up in a radio play i was listening to before bed last night
sfx and music.

synchronicity!

[revvy]

Nord Wave?

It’s my red darling

[chk071]

So, is Kontakt a synth?

If you wouldn't call it a synth, which term would you use to describe what it does?

[whyterabbyt]

<gameshow host>Its Synth or Sampler time...paaaart twooooo</gameshow host>

What about some things where they're considered synths, but its been pointed out that they also have sample-playing oscillators, or they are very obviously sample based, but have been pointed out to have a 'synth engine' as well?

Serum?
Dune?
Ana?
Ominsphere?

(The pointing out was all done by the same person, btw. Take a bow, Dencheg.)