Hidden Automation?

[rlboyce]

I'm new to Waveform and I'm trying to learn automation. As an experiment, I loaded a piano plugin and recorded a short midi loop. Then, I added an automation curve to control the plugin's filter cutoff. Waveform tried to follow the curve I created, but it seemed like it was fighting something hidden that was trying to hold the cutoff at a fixed value. Visibly and audibly, the filter parameter would jump unpredictably on playback.

Attempting to troubleshoot the issue, I deleted all the automation points of the curve I created and the curve became a horizontal line. However, the plugin filter parameter now remains fixed at 50%, no matter what I try (by default, the plugin loads at 100%). Dragging the horizontal line momentarily changes the parameter, but something hidden seems to keep pulling the parameter back to 50%. Dragging the plugin dial produces the same result. Dragging the parameter dial in the Waveform properties panel also produces the same result.

I've looked through the midi controller mappings and I don't see any controls assigned to the cutoff. In the automation track menus (the "A" and the "+") there are no other active parameters listed. I don't know where else to look at this point.

There are so many things that I like about Waveform, and I'd hate for something as basic as this to be what turns me away from Waveform. Surely, I must be missing something obvious? If you need me to create a Youtube video of my issue, let me know.

**Edit** The plugin I'm using is Quiet Piano. I retried this experiment in a new session and new project, with the same results. However, repeating this experiment with a different synth plugin (Helm), I do not experience the issue. I tried the same experiment with Quiet Piano in Cakewalk, and it does not force 50% cutoff. Perhaps this is a plugin-specific problem for Waveform?

Thanks!

[nowgad]

strange. try to highlight the curve again, it will turn white, press Delete on the keyboard and all settings for this automation curve should be deleted. After that, you can either move the curve, see how the parameter moves in the plugin, or move the automated parameter in the plugin and see how the curve moves.

[rlboyce]

After further experimentation, I have discovered the following:

• Recording midi notes on an empty track causes the Quiet Piano filter parameter to remain glued at 50% with no way to unglue the parameter.

• However, inserting an empty midi clip prior to recording midi notes does not glue the filter parameter.

Maybe this is a painfully obvious result to those familiar with Waveform, but this seems like a bug to me. I haven't performed this experiment with other plugins, so I don't know how prevalent this issue is. Maybe the fault lies with Quiet Piano and not Waveform, but to be fair I have not observed this behavior in Cakewalk.

I guess, for now, the solution is to avoid this issue by adapting my workflow and inserting empty midi clips prior to recording midi notes.

Nowgad, I followed your delete instructions. After that, dragging the line momentarily moves the plugin dial, but something keeps trying to pull the dial back to 50% as soon as I stop dragging the line. Rotating the plugin dial does not move the line. As you said, it's strange.

[pough]

I thought this might be an issue related to VST3 plugins but I downloaded and installed the VST3 version of Quiet Piano and I am not have any of the issues you're reporting. There have been some reports of automation sticking around even after it was thought to be deleted. In those cases the solution was to delete the plugin from the track and then add it back in again. Sticky automation goes away with the plugin.

I don't know if that's the issue you're having. Based on your description it sounds like you get the automation issue even in a brand new edit that hasn't had any automation at all. That's truly strange. I created a new Edit, I added Quiet Piano to a track, I recorded MIDI... no issues.

[rlboyce]

Pough, I recreated the sticky automation scenario, then deleted the plugin, then added the plugin back in again. The sticky automation remained after adding the plugin back in. I also confirmed that I am using the latest VST3 version of Quiet Piano (1.6.0). While confirming the version, I did notice that this VST3 file was placed in a non-standard VST3 folder where I normally keep my VST2 files (on an auxiliary drive), but I would be surprised if that was the cause of my trouble. I do this often with VST3s to save space on my primary drive and have never noticed plugins misbehave in other DAWs because of my atypical storage location. I figured it was worth mentioning anyway, to be thorough. The storage location, operating system, and midi devices are the only things I can think of that would be different between our experiments, and none of these seem a plausible cause to me.

Nowgad, Pough, thanks for all the good suggestions. Now that I've found a workaround for this issue, I think I'm content to consider this either a plugin bug or a Waveform bug that I can live with. However, this does erode my confidence in committing to Waveform as my primary DAW, which I'm a little bummed about. If anyone has further suggestions I would be happy to give the suggestion a shot, otherwise, thanks again for the help!

[dysjoint]

A midi cc somehow being default mapped to a parameter is the only time I've experienced anything similar. I'm not a midi expert but is there a setting that records expression along with note data that is somehow on in one scenario but not the other? Seems strange for sure.

[nowgad]

However, this does erode my confidence in committing to Waveform as my primary DAW, which I'm a little bummed about.

Waveform is far from perfect, unfortunately.