Edits. How do they work? Or don't they?

[beta male]

Hi all, I've been using Tracktion/Waveform for nearly 20 years but top of my "bugging the hell out of me" list is this. Once upon a time, not so long ago (maybe v8 or 9?) I saved-as an edit thinking I could keep an old mix intact whilst working on an alternative version. I was a bit shocked to find that all the changes I made in edit 2 were implemented in edit 1, so I didn't have 2 different versions of the mix at all, I had 2 identical mixes in edits with slightly different names.

Is that how edits are supposed to work? (Please tell me it isn't). I've been somewhat reluctant to try it since for obvious reasons.

[pough]

Hmm... I remember this coming up before but I can't remember exactly. Something to do with having to close both Edits or they somehow get entangled. I'd like to believe that it has been fixed, but I don't often save an alternate Edit and I can't remember the exact circumstances to test...

[beta male]

thanks pough. It's a real pisser when you think you've actively protected that "could be the one" mix and it turns out you might as well have given your laptop to a toddler with clear "please over-write my mix" instructions.

[Watchful]

Ah, edits.

This is probably the BIGGEST feature of Waveform that's undocumented, because there are whole entire tabs devoted to it in your project file, and barely a word of it discussed anywhere. Anywhere.

I'd love to see someone document all the uses for Edits so the rest of us can figure out what these are for. I've spent too much time wondering how to use them the right way, and no one seems to know. What follows is possibly the most detailed explanation you'll ever find, and believe me, it isn't much.

One way to use them--probably the original intent--is as a brute-force arranger.

1. Make an edit for your project called Intro.
2. Make another for your verses.
3. Make a third for your chorus...
4. ...and on and on...
5. ...until you make your Outro or Fade Out edit.

You should rename the edits to help you by double-clicking the edit tab name. Rename it "Intro," for your Intro, etc. Basically, one edit for every song part.

Create a new edit called "Master."

Drag the tabs of the other edits into your Master edit:
1. Drag the intro edit tab to the start
2. Drag the verse edit tab for your first verse...
3. Repeat step 2 for your second verse...
4. ...and on and on...
5. ...until your whole song structure is there in the Master edit.

Now all you're doing is dragging pointers to the other edits, so you can theoretically wind up with a really small project file. Think of it like a Word master document, wherein you actually insert other documents without actually making copies of them. Make a change in the original edit, and the Master edit changes to update itself. This is possibly what happened to Beta Male.

But isn't this the same as the Arranger track in Waveform? Actually, the Arranger track is a lot easier to use, but didn't exist before v9. Before then, the Edit tab was the recommended way to restructure whole parts of a song quickly!

I don't use them this way. I do use the Arranger track as it is quick, easy, and there are other ways of controlling changes to a part throughout a project.

I *have* use edits to create variations of a project. I did one years ago that I could not decide between 3/4 time and 4/4 time with a triplet-waltz feel. I create an edit for each, which let me compare them. I then realized the 4/4 version was stronger and deleted the first edit.

So you can use them that way as well. This is likely what you were going for, but not sure how you set up your edits. When I did it, I created new clips in each since the time signatures were different. Some pads and things not affected by the time were copied from one edit and pasted into the other.

...and that's all I know about edits.

You can experiment with the first technique, but don't use a real project. Create some fake ones for yourself and try to create the master edit tab and pull in other parts. You can try this for yourself and realize you probably wasted a lot of valuable time experimenting, because--I think--the Arranger track totally wins out over Edit tabs.

[beta male]

Thanks Watchful, that sounds absolutely awful

Perhaps I should re-frame my question then? In Waveform, what is the best way to manage multiple mixes?

[Dark Lane]

Interesting to hear how others use edits. For me they are a really useful feature; maybe it appeals to my left brain logical and structured side?

Anyway, I use them very differently from Watchful. Where they are very useful is if I'm creating a group of songs around a similar theme. For example, I created some songs based on Shakespeare sonnets a while back and they naturally formed a single project but with a different edit for each sonnet/song.

But even for projects with just one song, I still use them for mastering. I track and mix in one edit, then export as .WAV file and then create a new edit with a single track and import the .WAV file. Why? Then I can put my mastering plugins on the track rather than the master bus which I reserve for just a limiter and a meter plugin. So my project would contain two edits, the mix and the master

I'd never use edits as a way to break up the song form/structure. As beta male says, that sounds horrendous! I'd either use the song arranger or just use markers to identify the verse/chorus etc. I know you can link sub-edits to master edits as Watchful describes but it's not a feature I've found useful in practice. Basically, one song equals one edit.

Hope that helps?

[Watchful]

Perhaps I should re-frame my question then? In Waveform, what is the best way to manage multiple mixes?

Absolutely interested in everyone's answer to this.

I would probably use an edit if I were choosing between two...but again, some documentation would be ideal for best practices.

I've done sends and returns and submixes, muting and unmuting the submission with different plug-ins and levels to compare what sounded better without duplicating tracks. And yes, I've duplicated tracks just to experiment with different settings.

But I don't recommend it and would welcome other ideas.

Or even specifics on using edits better!

[fde101]

If you do your mixing of a song in stages, then you can use edits as effective backups of the song at each stage of the process (ex. one for the initial import/record/setup, one with the rough mix, one with EQ/compression, one adding FX, a final polished version, etc.), so that you have the previous step to refer back to if something goes haywire.

The automatic backups can sort of do this to a point, but keeping track of which ones represent which steps would be somewhat annoying?

[nowgad]

If you do your mixing of a song in stages, then you can use edits as effective backups of the song at each stage of the process

Right. if at some stage I understand that now I want to make some global changes, then it is easier and better, cheaper to save a new edit so that there is an opportunity to return. Of course, you can use a text plugin for reminders and the ability to perform various track processing options, experiment with tracks by duplicating them, and manage tracks through the tracks panel, disabling and/or hiding the Tracks themselves, within a single project. But it's easier to save it under a new edit.

[beta male]

Right. The problem I've had is that making changes to, say, Edit_2 has also changed Edit_1. Which was a bit of a shocker, and why I haven't tried it again since.

[nowgad]

Right. The problem I've had is that making changes to, say, Edit_2 has also changed Edit_1. Which was a bit of a shocker, and why I haven't tried it again since.

In this regard, there were no such problems, try again). In version 12 it was that after the crash everything that was in the project disappeared, the project opened empty. And only autosave helped to return the project. Now this problem does not exist. I already wrote, in another topic, why do these problems arise?)))
Upd .: Which of these vaunted, only 115 thousand lines of code is responsible inside Waveform for the function of randomizing errors, bugs and crashes?))) Maybe it’s worth tweaking the probability in the right direction?))

[beta male]

I'll give it another go with some test edits then (once the covid brain fog has lifted...)