Tracking Apple Silicon Native Hosts, Plugins, Effects

[aMUSEd]

NI Massive X 1.4.2 is available to download, it's Native AS now. I guess the next would be FM8 then.

and next year Reaktor/Super 8 and Battery 4.

Not surprisingly the VST3 version crashes in Bitwig when moving the global macro knobs, and the GUI is non existent in Digital Performer, checking Reaper and Live as I write.

Typical NI 1.0 issues. The AU works fine in DP, we'll see about Reaper and Live.. Hopefully Cubase users at least get a working VST3 plug in.

Not getting crashes here in Bitwig (on Ventura with M1 Max)

[machinesworking]

NI Massive X 1.4.2 is available to download, it's Native AS now. I guess the next would be FM8 then.

and next year Reaktor/Super 8 and Battery 4.

Not surprisingly the VST3 version crashes in Bitwig when moving the global macro knobs, and the GUI is non existent in Digital Performer, checking Reaper and Live as I write.

Typical NI 1.0 issues. The AU works fine in DP, we'll see about Reaper and Live.. Hopefully Cubase users at least get a working VST3 plug in.

Not getting crashes here in Bitwig (on Ventura with M1 Max)

Not super surprising, you're dealing with an at least 3.5x more powerful GPU than the M1 Air here. The issue is crashing when moving a Macro knob, it's a classic plug in GUI issue on Mac OS.

[aMUSEd]

OK but I don't see how CPU/GPU power affects chances of crashing - I have been tweaking macro knobs including with Komplete Kontrol and directly using midi and not had any crashes

[sQeetz]

Not super surprising, you're dealing with an at least 3.5x more powerful GPU than the M1 Air here. The issue is crashing when moving a Macro knob, it's a classic plug in GUI issue on Mac OS.

Not happening here either... Macbook Pro M1 neither in Logic nor Live

[machinesworking]

OK but I don't see how CPU/GPU power affects chances of crashing - I have been tweaking macro knobs including with Komplete Kontrol and directly using midi and not had any crashes

OK So in both those scenarios you're not using the mouse, should have mentioned that, but GUI issues with plug ins almost always are worse with direct mouse interaction. I can reliably crash Massive X with the mouse. In the past these sorts of crashes almost always do not happen with control surface knobs or CC assigned MIDI, just with direct mouse manipulation of the GUI. I haven't even gotten around to assigning Macros to control surfaces in Bitwig for instance. Hence the possibility that if you had in fact been messing with the Macros via the mouse, that the extra overhead graphics wise you have might help.

Plus, Massive X's GUI issues in DP11 flatly points to bugs in Massive X's Apple Silicon code for the GUI, considering DP11 has been native for almost two years or more at this point. This is the only time I've seen a blank GUI in DP11 on Apple Silicon.

[aMUSEd]

I did use the mouse too

[machinesworking]

Not super surprising, you're dealing with an at least 3.5x more powerful GPU than the M1 Air here. The issue is crashing when moving a Macro knob, it's a classic plug in GUI issue on Mac OS.

Not happening here either... Macbook Pro M1 neither in Logic nor Live

VST support in general is always different for every DAW, almost every time, it's the plug in developers fault, not the DAW. Live VST3 seems to be working fine here as well, and I've had zero issues with using the mouse to move macro knobs with the AU version so I didn't even test Logic since 100% that's the first DAW developers use to test the AU version.

[machinesworking]

I did use the mouse too

Doesn't happen every time you move the mouse, but I can reliably crash the Massive X plug in within minutes by moving the macro knobs via mouse moves in Bitwig.

The hardware might be part of it, and it could be just that you haven't ran into it yet.

[sQeetz]

VST support in general is always different for every DAW, almost every time, it's the plug in developers fault, not the DAW. Live VST3 seems to be working fine here as well, and I've had zero issues with using the mouse to move macro knobs with the AU version so I didn't even test Logic since 100% that's the first DAW developers use to test the AU version.

Ok... I actually don't even install VST or VST3... just the AU

[nanostream]

it's a classic plug in GUI issue on Mac OS.

Never heard of it, let alone experienced it, and I’m a longtime Mac user. Which other plugins do have this problem?

In any case, MX maxes out a M1 MacBook Pro’s GPU with 8 cores, but without apparent performance or stability issues (VST3 and AU with Live 11).

[aMUSEd]

I did use the mouse too

Doesn't happen every time you move the mouse, but I can reliably crash the Massive X plug in within minutes by moving the macro knobs via mouse moves in Bitwig.

The hardware might be part of it, and it could be just that you haven't ran into it yet.

I guess will keep trying

[machinesworking]

it's a classic plug in GUI issue on Mac OS.

Never heard of it, let alone experienced it, and I’m a longtime Mac user. Which other plugins do have this problem?

In any case, MX maxes out a M1 MacBook Pro’s GPU with 8 cores, but without apparent performance or stability issues (VST3 and AU with Live 11).

I've seen crashes when interacting with GUI's, specifically NI GUI's via the mouse for over 15 years. Reaktor for a long time had this issue. Usually solved in an update.

So the basic difference between Mac OS and other OS's is the GUI, the code for it being a delay, synth etc. etc. is the same. The plug in code for each DAW is essentially specific to that DAW, especially VST and even more so for VST3, the documentation for hosting is supposedly just not that great, the fun of a certain DAW developer making the plug in format in the first place. AU is generally in better shape for this, barring some early glitches.

All this to say the mouse interaction with a plug in, in a DAW is a specifically OS oriented set of graphics code, and the biggest influx of plug ins that crashed DAWs I've seen is usually due to a drastic OS change, so OS to OS X had a ton of them, and I'm not shocked that subtle GUI issues with the first version of Massive X are causing glitches in DAWs like DP11 and Bitwig, that are not in the top 5, i.e. not Live, Logic, Cubase, FL Studio etc.

[teilo]

FYI, I'm out all week at AWS re:Invent. I'll try to get to new updates as I have time.

[Rickskii]

Sonic Charge, who are already Silicon Native, have just added VST3 to their SN line up for all those that prefer VST3.

Not many VST2 to finish now for me just Black Rooster, LFO Tool and Auburn Sounds

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

T-Racks 5.10 is out now and native.