FR: MSuperLooper - option to select prev/next loop on any track (and maintain current track selection)

[BennyG]

I've been playing around lately with building up arrangements in MSL, by recording different parts into the different loop slots on each track, and then switching back-and-forth between these parts on the fly. It's a lot of fun, but I seem to have hit a bit of a brick wall....

Here's what I'd like to do:

• Build up a bunch of loops, say on tracks 1-4, some created live, some of them as samples which have been imported onto the loop slots ahead of time.
• Play my guitar live through my final loop track, but not recording onto this track.
• Whilst doing that, use my MIDI foot controller to step through the loops on one of the other tracks (or several of them, using a multiparameter), creating a bit of variety and structure.

...and two reasons why this isn't currently possible:

1. There isn't currently a command that will let you go "Track x > next loop". You can do "Selected track > next loop", but that's useless in this case as I'm trying to maintain selection on the guitar track. You can also do "Track x > select loop y", which is workable, but then you need 4 free MIDI buttons for each of the 4 loops. If "Track x > prev/next loop" were possible, you would only need 2 buttons.
2. The "Track x > select loop y" command does not respect current track selection - it always switches track selection to the track on which you are changing the loop selection. This is not desired behaviour in this scenario.

As always, I've done a quick video to make my wordy descriptions a little clearer:



Here I've recorded some drums parts into tracks 1 & 2, bass on 3 and a rhythm guitar on track 4. The other loop slots on tracks 1 & 2 have some alternate drum patterns, and the bass track has some different synth bass parts on the other loop slots. I'm playing the ascending guitar part live through track 5.

Button 9 on my foot controller launches a multiparameter that selects loop 2 on tracks 1, 2 & 3 simultaneously, loading in some alternate drum loops and the synth bass. As you can see, when I press this at 0:09 on the vid, I lose my guitar part as track selection switches to track 3. I then have to hit my "next track" button twice to get back to where I was and resume playing. Same thing happens again when I use button 0 to switch the drum & bass tracks onto loop 3.

I also can't get back to loop 1 on these tracks as I've run out of buttons

So yeah, a set of commands to choose next/previous loops on any specified track whilst maintaining current track selection would be just the ticket! It would also be great if loop selection would 'wrap around' in the same way track selection currently does when the "Prev/next cycle" option is checked. So, hitting "next loop" whilst on loop 4 would take you back around to loop 1, etc...

[R13]

Have you considered running two instances of MSL? It will give you a lot of flexibility.

[MeldaProduction]

Exactly, that's what multiple instances would be good for!

[BennyG]

Thanks for the replies and suggestion. As it happens I have tried using multiple instances of MSL, but sadly this approach doesn't offer a solution here. If anything, it kind of makes the situation worse

You see, whilst adding another looper does have the potential to introduce more flexibility, unfortunately it also introduces a lot more complexity. Reason being that you now have two sets of MIDI commands to think about. It gets really confusing trying to work out which looper you are controlling at any one time. All of which would be fine if I had a large grid-style MIDI controller with loads of pads, as I'd have enough buttons to just duplicate my controls and send them from a different MIDI channel on another row of buttons. And then set the loopers to respond on different channels.

However, as a guitarist, my hands are tied up playing so I only have 10 foot switches I can use at any one time. With a single looper I can have my commands set up like in the video, for example:

One Looper.jpg

Adding a second looper (one for guitars and one for drums) would make things look more like this:

Two Loopers.jpg

...so I've lost at least 3 commands (clear, replace, reverse) and now have way fewer options when it comes to building a performance.

Which is why I'd really appreciate this FR being given some consideration . Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.

[one other issue I've not really touched on in this post is that of consistency of control within MSL. There are a whole bunch of other commands that will let you manipulate functions on the non-selected tracks, without affecting current track selection. I'm not really sure why loop selection should be any different. I'll post later with more detail, and perhaps another vid...]

[Dirk Diggler]

How about setting up another softstep layout, that way you can have completely different midi settings including midi channels. Just a matter of right or left on the nav, just label them so you can tell them apart.
Softstep is such a powerful tool, good luck.
Dirk

[BennyG]

Thanks Dirk, sensible suggestions as always. Again, this is something that I have considered (tried even) but ultimately decided against. In fact, I used to play a live set of 6 tracks where each one used a different SoftStep layout. I can't tell you the number of times I forgot to switch layouts between songs and then the panic would set in as I'd realise mid-song that the buttons were all wrong. The thought of trying to switch up the layouts and keep track of them during a performance fills me with dread, so that's not a path I'm going to go down. One consistent layout with a flexible set of commands is where it's at for me.

As an aside, I am investigating the SoftStep's ability to send extra MIDI notes using different types of button press. So for example my clear track button is now set to send a different MIDI note when I keep it held down, which then clears all tracks. Finding sensible combinations of commands like this for specific buttons is definitely a way to squeeze a bit more performance out of a single layout.

Going back to the specifics of this FR, my main gripe at the moment is the lack of consistent behaviour in MSL when it comes to track selection focus. I'm just preparing a demo vid to highlight this and will post a bit later...

[BennyG]

So here's a demo of the sort of inconsistency in track selection I've been alluding to since my second post. Very similar example to the first vid, but this time I've mapped a bunch of different commands to my MIDI controller. These commands all act upon the non-selected rhythm tracks (1-3):



As you can see, it's absolutely possible to manipulate the other tracks in the following ways, whilst always maintaining track focus on the bottom track (my live guitar track):

• Toggle pan positions (button 2)
• Toggle volume levels (button 7)
• Toggle track mutes (button 3)
• Toggle track reverse (button 8 )
• Set all tracks to Loop slot 3 (button 5)
• Set all tracks to Loop slot 2 (button 4)

All of which is great, and gives you a wealth of options for creating an interesting arrangement for your loops, whilst overdubbing on top of them at the same time

However, as soon as I hit button 0, which is mapped to select Loop slot 3 on only tracks 1-3, BAM! I've lost my guitar part because track selection has suddenly jumped to the bass track. This just feels like a massively inconsistent and unpredictable way for the plugin to behave. Why would I want to jump to the bass track at this point? I feel there's no reason to lose track focus from track 5 to track 3*. Hopefully this is something worth looking at?

(*if the behaviour were changed to maintain current track selection upon loop slot change, it would still be quite easy to reintroduce this behaviour manually - just set a multiparameter to change the loop slots and then select track 3, or vice versa).

[BennyG]

Exactly, that's what multiple instances would be good for!

Would really appreciate another response on this issue, as multiple instances doesn't offer a solution. Loss of track selection when switching loops on unselected tracks is really killing my looping workflow

[MeldaProduction]

I'm a bit confused - so you want to use some sort of MIDI command to change an the loop in an arbitrary track? Why don't you then map it to yourself? There's a parameter for that. And if you want it to be cleaner just use a multiparameter, there you can change multiple loops identically. You can use a modulator to vary these loops automatically...

[BennyG]

I'm a bit confused - so you want to use some sort of MIDI command to change an the loop in an arbitrary track?

Thanks for replying again - yep, that's exactly what I want to do (and also to step through previous/next loops on arbitrary tracks)

And if you want it to be cleaner just use a multiparameter, there you can change multiple loops identically.

That's what I've done, and it works fine except the track selection gets all messed up. See, I'm playing my guitar live through track 5 (which I will later loop/overdub onto), and I want to have control over loop selection on my drum and bass tracks, for creating variation in the backing that I am playing over. As soon as I use a MIDI command to launch a multiparameter that selects different loops on my drum/bass tracks, the track selection switches over to one of those tracks (whichever is listed last on the multiparameter). I would like for track selection to stay on the guitar track, so that I can keep playing/hearing the guitar part.

Of course, you may then argue "why not just add Track 5 - select to the end of the multiparameter" That would solve the issue in this specific case, but at other times I might want to be playing on my other guitar track (track 4). Therefore the most sensible/desirable behaviour would be for MSL to maintain whatever is the current track selection.

[MeldaProduction]

Aaaha, so it is changing selected track right?

[BennyG]

Yep, that's it, that's the killer!