Hive2 - Delay FX not working at high sampling rate

[DNnX]

Delay FX seems to be dead at high sampling rate.

https://whyp.it/tracks/63192/hive2-vs-h ... oken=qjDh0

They are using same preset.
The 1st one is 768kHz / 128sample.
The 2nd one is 44.1kHz / 128sample.
The 3rd one is 44.1kHz / 8sample.

Reaper 5.99 + Topping E50.
Recorded by analog input of Tascam DA-3000 (44.1kHz / 24bit).

[Chris-S]

Hi,
can't reproduce in Reaper 6 on Windows 10.

Init sound with Delay, rendered @ 44.1 / 176 khz, are sounding the same here.

[Viktor [TUC]]

Not sure what we deduce from a test with too many variables, too many unknowns. Can we see a project file? A preset? Why was the output recorded into an external recorder? Were all cables plugged in properly? Many factors that may or may not have contributed.
Plus, 768 kHz sampling rate, that's not part of our testing procedure, and (dare I say) won't be for the foreseeable future

My point is, we'll happily check out everything, but if a bug is reported to us, we need all the details of the test setup so that we can try to reproduce things. And I should point out in advance, a sample rate of 768 kHz is just unrealistic, you shouldn't expect that such rates are supported.

Viktor
u-he team

[Viktor [TUC]]

Apologies if I sound a little dismissive, DNnX, I appreciate the report nonetheless.

[DoktorTenma]

I guess that DNnX is using Reaper's Chain or FX instance oversampling options to reach the 768kHz rates.

I can duplicate the issue by doing the following steps:

Code: Select all

1) Open Reaper and set the Audio device settings to use a sample rate of 48000 and a block size of 128.

2) Load up Hive on a track and load the AZ Defined Pluck preset.

3) Play a short note on the built in keyboard in Hive and listen to the delay.

4) In the FX chain window, right click on the VST3i: Hive (u-he) and change the Chain oversampling from No oversampling to Oversample up to 705.6k to 768k.

5) Since these oversample changes does not take effect until the audio engine has been restarted, open up the Audio device settings dialog again and just click OK. No changes need to be done to reset the audio engine.

6) Play the same short note and hear that the delay has changed.

7) Repeat steps 4-6 but select the No oversampling option. You will now hear the original delay when playing the short note again.

The same behaviour is true for the VST2, AU and CLAP versions of Hive.

The above tests were done on an M1 MacBook Pro.

This doesn't seem to be an issue with Reaper's oversampling functionality as doing the same tests with Pigments using the Cranked Plucked Lead preset, the delays do not change when changing the oversample rates.

[Urs]

768kHz...

I'd recommend to *never* go there. The little aliasing that one avoids is countered by decreased floating point resolution of a lot of common algorithms.

Things that "just work" at 768kHz probably run at a lower samplerate internally, and then upsample.

[Fannon]

What are good sample rates to run plugins internally or also to use externally?
I understand that if you render the end result, even 44.1khz may be more than a human can possibly hear. But having higher sample rates in the process when the sound is generated / processed helps reduce aliasing?

[niterateaudio]

Why would you need a 768kHz project setting?

[DNnX]

I guess that DNnX is using Reaper's Chain or FX instance oversampling options to reach the 768kHz rates.

I can duplicate the issue by doing the following steps:

Code: Select all

1) Open Reaper and set the Audio device settings to use a sample rate of 48000 and a block size of 128.

2) Load up Hive on a track and load the AZ Defined Pluck preset.

3) Play a short note on the built in keyboard in Hive and listen to the delay.

4) In the FX chain window, right click on the VST3i: Hive (u-he) and change the Chain oversampling from No oversampling to Oversample up to 705.6k to 768k.

5) Since these oversample changes does not take effect until the audio engine has been restarted, open up the Audio device settings dialog again and just click OK. No changes need to be done to reset the audio engine.

6) Play the same short note and hear that the delay has changed.

7) Repeat steps 4-6 but select the No oversampling option. You will now hear the original delay when playing the short note again.

The same behaviour is true for the VST2, AU and CLAP versions of Hive.

The above tests were done on an M1 MacBook Pro.

This doesn't seem to be an issue with Reaper's oversampling functionality as doing the same tests with Pigments using the Cranked Plucked Lead preset, the delays do not change when changing the oversample rates.

Thanks for confirming
I'm using Reaper 5.99 which does not have oversampling.
Topping E50 has native ASIO 768kHz support and Reaper can handle it.

[DNnX]

768kHz...

I'd recommend to *never* go there. The little aliasing that one avoids is countered by decreased floating point resolution of a lot of common algorithms.

Things that "just work" at 768kHz probably run at a lower samplerate internally, and then upsample.

Hi Urs. Thanks for the reply.
If there were recommendable max rate for u-he synths, I'll follow it!

[DNnX]

Why would you need a 768kHz project setting?

• I sometime use plugins as live standalone synth

• I abuse filters and distortions for some music styles

• Oversampling extra FXs adds extra latency.

I don't use 768kHz when I use in project that has many synths and fxs to make song.