- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Trancit wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:12 pmSorry but that´s nonsense...apoclypse wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:19 pm That’s not a double standard. Theming is feature. What people are suggesting here is to fundamentally change how the application works and has worked since it was created. That’s like buying S1 and complaining that it isn’t Ableton. Well it isn’t meant to be Ableton. It has a different focus.
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Changing the looks because you don´t like the GUI is not different than having optional partly a different workflow because you have something better to do with your time than menu diving to make 10000 bits unique and this hasn´t to do anything about making it work like a different DAW... it´s just about simplifying and getting rid of tons of actually unnecessary clicks...
I cannot count the endless times when I forgot to make this f*cking clip unique (no matter if Pattern/Automation or Audio) before changing it...having to undo every change after noticing, making unique and doing the whole work again!
And I cannot even imagine how many users this happens on a daily base...
Very appealing workflow... the more often you do something...the more it trains your skills!
FL Studio´s essence is not in having to make something unique all day long... and the change could be quite easy but get´s refused since the beginning...
Every DAW which has a shared/linked copy feature has a modifier key to do so on the fly...
...i.e. in a normal DAW CTRL+ left drag to make a unique copy...CTRL+ALT drag to make a shared/linked copy... easy peasy...
Why isn´t that possible in FLS???
Shift+ left drag for a shared/linked copy ... CTRL+Shift left drag to make a unique copy...
Or at least a shortcut for making something unique...
Even as they implemented the new make unique command into the playlist menu... no shortcut!
Trancit, I have read this forum posting and every single comment and reply on it very thoroughly before taking the time to express my thoughts. It is EMBARRASSING to admit that some of these people wrongly attacked you. I really believe they have no clue how cumbersome the current Pattern/Make Unique workflow truly is. It's a nightmare. They claim it "inspires creativity" or allows for "creative freedom" Wrong.
The program gets nearly everything right EXCEPT the Patterns/Making Unique/Playlist handling of MIDI. To say it sucks would be an understatement. The fact that IL refuses to do anything about this is outrageous given how easy it would be to implement, yet they prioritize things like Themes, or new Generators to keep the user community happy. I am displeased. It would be a miracle if IL finally did something about this, but sadly with every new release I am once again like you... disappointed.
The FL Studio user community rarely ever talk about the Pattern workflow mess on the IL forums, or how much work extra work it creates for the user. Given that it is such a niche and specific request, the devs refuse to address it as "It would only benefit a few people" This is not true.
As you've already stated, the devs continue to make the the following arguments as well...
1. Being able to copy/drop MIDI directly into the playlist (without needing to go in to the channel rack, or other existing patterns and "CTRL + C+ to copy the MIDI data, then open a new pattern and paste it)
"No this isn´t possible because FL Studio wouldn´t know to which generator the notes shall go to..."
2. Copying/moving a clip from one instrument track to another automatically assigns the midi to the other generator linked to this other instrument track...
Answer: "No, we can´t do that... what if that clip contains data for multiple generators ... how shall FLS react then..."
Like you've said, with Instrument Tracks, this "excuse" of theirs is nonsense! These arguments are poor and I refuse to buy in to them. This excuse of theirs is dated and old. Try again devs!
I really doubt implementing these two Playlist features would require re-coding the software from the ground up from scratch. It would make the workflow so much easier and straightforward yet here we are... Nothing gets changed. Same cumbersome Pattern based workflow with the added burden of creating extra work for the user to stay organized. I always find myself having to go elbow-to-elbow with the software for something as seemingly trivial as staying organized. It is a REAL CHORE to stay organized within FL Studio. From what I've seen, many users seem to not give a rip about it, but I think they're shooting themselves in the foot by neglecting it. Organization has done nothing short of helping me stay in control and knowing where anything is at any given moment.
Why must the user constantly have to fight AGAINST the software just to get it to do basic things that other DAW users don't ever have to think TWICE about? The whole "Make Unique" thing is goofy and it clutters your Picker Panel (which already sucks enough as it is) quite heavily. (We'll get to that in a moment further down!)
On the topic of organization, other DAW users have no clue how easy they have it, and FL users have no clue how much EXTRA work they're having to do. It's funny. I've used the program for 9 years, I used to use the Channel Rack and traditional Pattern workflow that the very program was built upon like so many users still do, but I'm now very familiar with how other DAWs handle tracks within a Playlist and it is absurd at what all the user must do in FL Studio.
Many former FL Studio users who decided to make the switch to Ableton or other DAWs commonly state how much easier it is for them to stay organized, and that they do not miss the Pattern based workflow. You'll see this iterated everywhere.
People here are making you seem like the devil for merely suggesting these workflow/playlist ideas and improvements. "How dare you change the very nature of FL Studio and how it behaves!" (Like a bunch of angry men with pitchforks IMHO) It's silly.
It isn't like you're suggesting to outright REPLACE the traditional way of using the software (Patterns/Channel Rack) you're suggesting it be an OPTION (just like Instrument/Audio Tracks is an OPTION). For those users who prefer the traditional workflow, they can CONTINUE to use it. It would be entirely optional.
In my own experiences, if you so much as make constructive criticisms towards the software and give comments for how it can be improved, many FL users will take this personally and attack you for it, making you out to be some kind of evil villain. They misconstrue what you're trying to convey and come after you.
"FL is fine how it is!" "If you don't like it, then why whine about it?" "Go use another DAW loser" "Maybe FL Studio doesn't like YOU" (Cringe, I know) It really looks bad on their part, and shows just how delusional they are in thinking that their current Pattern based workflow is "Fine as it is!" "Works for me!" "Inspires creativity!" "Allows for creative freedom" Yeah, you can keep telling yourself that, but I know better, and I know how easier linear DAWs make it. Try another DAW, then come back with your same silly little argument about how it "inspires your creativity" You're having to do more work than necessary and you don't even know it (likely because you're not familiar with how easy other DAWs make this)
Because of these peoples lack of familiarity with how other DAWs handle things, they're looking at these criticisms/suggestions through a very narrow and defensive lens. It never hurt anybody to have an open mind. To this day, so many people are STILL not aware that the Instrument/Audio Tracks workflow is a thing. They think you NEED to use the Channel Rack. This just shows how many FL users are out of the know. Their mind is blown when I tell them there is no need to use the Channel Rack.
With other DAWs, want to copy MIDI in the playlist? CTRL + Drag down. Boom. MIDI copied on to the track/instrument you desire. You know what you have to do in FL Studio? A BUNCH OF GYMNASTICS/ACROBATICS TO DO THE SAME THING. TAKES TWICE AS AS LONG. This is such a basic request that has been neglected for years. It wouldn't take the devs all but a few minutes to get this coded.
- SOME PERSONAL PLAYLIST GRIPES - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1. There is no way to view Ghost Notes from other Tracks/Patterns within the Playlist.
(You must first group the Patterns in to a single Pattern to be able to view the Ghost Notes) This is silly...
2. There is no way to select the color of Ghost Notes.
It's all a single color (grey/white) which means if you're viewing the MIDI information of several sounds, you'll have to try and figure out which one is which.
3. There is no way to edit multiple instruments MIDI data within a single Piano Roll. (Unless of course you use the VFX keyboard splitter, VFX color mapper, or Layer)
Not all of us want to use Patcher to house our instruments in order to edit multiple Generators from within a single Piano Roll. It's more work than necessary, and cumbersome for most to set up.
4. The Picker Panel filter groups are very poorly designed when compared to Channel Rack filter groups
There is not even a way to delete groups currently! Yes, you read that correctly. NO WAY TO DELETE FILTER GROUPS WTIHIN THE PICKER PANEL. You can add a group... deleting it? GOOD LUCK.
Look at this post from 2018... (5 freaking years ago!!!)
https://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=195353
So this isn't a "new" problem by any means.. For 5 freaking years IL have done nothing about this. The Picker Panel is garbage. Period. It's been neglected and ignored while other things get priority within updates.
The Channel Rack *mostly* nails the filter concept which allows you to place certain Channels within different filter categories for ease of access and organization. The Picker Panel should be completely identical with the ability to Add, Rename, and Delete filters just as it is done within the Channel Rack.
It has to be said... I don't pretend to be a self proclaimed FL Studio expert, but I feel competent in saying that 9 years of experience within the software has been PLENTY of time for me to evaluate and familiarize myself with the various types of workflows that can be achieved with it. I'm not just some guy who picked up FL Studio last night, and is grumpy and upset because "Wahhhh!! It doesn't perform like Ableton!" I have tried MANY workflows, many window management systems, and used to use the Channel Rack for everything before switching to Instrument Tracks. I have spent many many thousands of hours in the software, and I'd like to believe I know a thing or two. Ultimately, I feel that my complaints/suggestions for improvement are 100% valid. (NOT trying to toot my own horn or sound like an elitist or pompous audiophile prick with their head up their arse)
I too, was once a Channel Rack apologist who used it, swore by it, and with my very limited knowledge at the time, thought other DAWs were silly and dumb for the way they did things. (Oh how clueless I was...)
I am uploading two .mp4 videos for you to see just SOME of my annoyances with the Picker Panel. (Don't worry the videos are quite short)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/zlgpzdj3 ... S.mp4/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ln756dcf ... e.mp4/file
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I could go on forever, but I think I've made it quite clear that the devs continued efforts in neglecting the Pattern/Make Unique/Playlist Handling of MIDI/Ghost Notes in Playlist/Picker Panel, in return makes users have to do a bunch of digital acrobatics/window navigation/manual deletion of Unique Patterns etc just to keep organized. Other DAW users have these things readily available with ease. I hope and pray one day they will do something about this mess... I love this software, it is very powerful, but it is beyond time the devs do something about this.
This post may come off as me being angry, some of you reading may think to yourselves "Who pissed in this guys cereal this morning?" and you'd be right. I am upset. I'm passionately upset because I want to see the devs make improvements on these concepts, yet they always make an excuse not to. I'm upset at the incompetence and lazy efforts of IL.
(The example I provided where a user was complaining about the Inability to delete Filters within the Picker Panel *5 years ago* should make their incompetency and laziness apparent) (Don't even get me started on the fact that we JUST NOW received fades on Audio Clips within the playlist... This wasn't a user request that just popped up within the last few years, people were requesting this for probably over a decade and I'm not exaggerating!!!)
These are very basic editing features other DAWs have. These are not ridiculous requests, and they would 100%make the lives of so many users easier, with the added bonus of course being, *dun duh duh duhhh!!!!* THEY ARE OPTIONAL. Everybody can be happy. Don't like it? Don't use it. Like it? Use it.
I think if you try and read my statements without any biases or preconceived notions towards myself, or how YOU currently use the software, you will hopefully be able to sympathize with my gripes, and understand they are 100% warranted. I am passionate about the software and want to see these things implemented. A few of us have tried so hard to get this across the devs thick skulls, and we're always served a robotic and generic response from IL about how it "Just isn't worth the effort or "It would only benefit a very select few group of individuals"
Final Comment: Matthias, thank you for your ongoing efforts in uploading to your Youtube channel and shining light on the various and POWERFUL features FL Studio is capable of/gets RIGHT.
I've learned many things from you. Your channel is like a breath of fresh air in a sea of wishy washy click-baity FL Studio videos that teach you literally nothing and rehash the same dull information over and over again. You cover various concepts with a level of maturity that few other content creators are willing to imitate. I know myself and many other users alike have gained powerful insight in to what kind of wizardry this software is capable of due to the way you teach things. Keep it up!
