Sad state of Native Instruments

[osiris]

One thing I noticed after trying to put my kit back together was that NI made it a lot easier. I bought Komplete 6 boxed. Bought again Komplete 10, smaller boxed. My new laptop has no optical drive but NI made it much easier for me, letting me download what I wanted to install on the new system. That meant I didn't have to download Kontakt which I consider to be bloatware, but you can now choose which content you want installed. Didn't work this way with a disc install. What worries me is, I bought things like Massive and Replika separate so okay. I bought Razor & Monark which used to run in Reaktor 5 which was included in the Komplete. When I pulled up Reaktor 5 to run Razor, I got a bunch of messages saying I need to activate this, blah blah. But, they are activated and run in Reaktor 6 Player no problem. But, now I feel maybe down the road someday a Reaktor version update will nullify these synths and they will go the way of the Pro-53(and Absynth and FM7).

[Hammy Havoc]

Their corporate misfires may have a rich history, but it would be hard to convincingly argue that the current NI is consistently pushing the limits of DSP, modeling, and sampling with the gusto they did in the past.

Maybe the next step isn't more loops, that I agree with, but maybe it's cleaned up UX and AI browsing like XO and Sononym? I'm betting it is, auto tagging in nks etc.

I think the halcyon days are over for Maschine and Komplete Kontrol, not that they ever truly began, there was a lot of potential that simply withered on the vine with this continued MVP (Minimum Viable Product) mentality towards it.

Respectfully, I doubt anything as advanced as AI browsing, auto-tagging et al will ever happen in Maschine/Komplete Kontrol, primarily because the utmost basic things like splitting/merging patterns/scenes still hasn't happened, aftertouch still isn't supported despite their own virtual synths supporting it, no zones/splits, layers, can't record multiple instruments simultaneously etc. Their marketing materials are now very newbie-oriented. If they haven't added any of that, why would they add anything more complex that most newbies won't need? Separating things out by expansion pack is probably "good enough" for 99% of users as far as MVP mentality is concerned.

Both it and MPC software can't and won't compete with the likes of a groovebox-sampler-style DAW like Ableton Live, which is what's going to continue to consume the newbie and hobbyist demographic of users. Why buy Maschine or an MPC when there's Ableton Live? The broad support, openness, fleshed-out features, educational materials, and much less lock-in makes it much more appealing for most consumers. That's not even getting into the number of pros that use it, or pros who would like to use it alongside a more advanced linear DAW (howdy).

[pixel85]

MPC has a solid history and it's a holy grail of HipHop culture. I wouldn't worry about this one's future even a bit.
Maschine doesn't have any of it. If it would be discontinued today, nobody would remember it in a decade or two while people will still remember how MPC influenced HipHop.

[Hammy Havoc]

MPC has a solid history and it's a holy grail of HipHop culture. I wouldn't worry about this one's future even a bit.
Maschine doesn't have any of it. If it would be discontinued today, nobody would remember it in a decade or two while people will still remember how MPC influenced HipHop.

Akai as you think of it went tatty-bye in the mid '00s, the history and provenance thus being ultimately transient, and now a shadow of its former self, IMO. The MPC of today isn't the MPC of yesteryear, and it is still missing aspects of the workflow from decades ago, not to mention a modulation matrix ala MPC 4000. The modern MPC workflow is messy and convoluted. Not to discount what you're saying though, I do acknowledge the importance of the MPC as an instrument, and Roger Linn's delightful contributions to culture.

[gentleclockdivider]

MPC has a solid history and it's a holy grail of HipHop culture. I wouldn't worry about this one's future even a bit.
Maschine doesn't have any of it. If it would be discontinued today, nobody would remember it in a decade or two while people will still remember how MPC influenced HipHop.

You’re trippin
Akai pro went downhill since the mpc 1000 , everything after that was a cheap rehash , remember the fake renaissance controllers etc…battery packed 500 , more cheap controllers that had nothing to do with the prestige of the once mighty AkaiPro.

[pixel85]

MPC has a solid history and it's a holy grail of HipHop culture. I wouldn't worry about this one's future even a bit.
Maschine doesn't have any of it. If it would be discontinued today, nobody would remember it in a decade or two while people will still remember how MPC influenced HipHop.

Akai as you think of it went tatty-bye in the mid '00s, the history and provenance thus being ultimately transient, and now a shadow of its former self, IMO. The MPC of today isn't the MPC of yesteryear, and it is still missing aspects of the workflow from decades ago, not to mention a modulation matrix ala MPC 4000. The modern MPC workflow is messy and convoluted. Not to discount what you're saying though, I do acknowledge the importance of the MPC as an instrument, and Roger Linn's delightful contributions to culture.

I have MPC One. It's not convoluted or messy. It's super easy and fast to use. People who are complaining that it's too difficult to learn are most likely the same who would be lost in Ableton Live or any other DAW. I learned to how make music with it without reading manual, in just few days and I'm not a MENSA member;)
It's impossible to expect that it will be as easy to use as MPC60 and at the same time it will have all the features that modern DAW has at the same time.

[pixel85]

MPC has a solid history and it's a holy grail of HipHop culture. I wouldn't worry about this one's future even a bit.
Maschine doesn't have any of it. If it would be discontinued today, nobody would remember it in a decade or two while people will still remember how MPC influenced HipHop.

You’re trippin
Akai pro went downhill since the mpc 1000 , everything after that was a cheap rehash , remember the fake renaissance controllers etc…battery packed 500 , more cheap controllers that had nothing to do with the prestige of the once mighty AkaiPro.

Try MPC One shit is fast to work with and fun to use. Who cares about their controllers? I'm not talking about some shitty controllers (99% of midi controllers is junk anyway).

[pixel85]

We will see what will die first: Maschine or MPC. My bet is on Maschine.
Especially that you can convert Maschine libraries to MPC format for free (dunno if it can be done other way around).

[machinesworking]

Their corporate misfires may have a rich history, but it would be hard to convincingly argue that the current NI is consistently pushing the limits of DSP, modeling, and sampling with the gusto they did in the past.

Maybe the next step isn't more loops, that I agree with, but maybe it's cleaned up UX and AI browsing like XO and Sononym? I'm betting it is, auto tagging in nks etc.

I think the halcyon days are over for Maschine and Komplete Kontrol, not that they ever truly began, there was a lot of potential that simply withered on the vine with this continued MVP (Minimum Viable Product) mentality towards it.

Respectfully, I doubt anything as advanced as AI browsing, auto-tagging et al will ever happen in Maschine/Komplete Kontrol, primarily because the utmost basic things like splitting/merging patterns/scenes still hasn't happened, aftertouch still isn't supported despite their own virtual synths supporting it, no zones/splits, layers, can't record multiple instruments simultaneously etc. Their marketing materials are now very newbie-oriented. If they haven't added any of that, why would they add anything more complex that most newbies won't need? Separating things out by expansion pack is probably "good enough" for 99% of users as far as MVP mentality is concerned.

Both it and MPC software can't and won't compete with the likes of a groovebox-sampler-style DAW like Ableton Live, which is what's going to continue to consume the newbie and hobbyist demographic of users. Why buy Maschine or an MPC when there's Ableton Live? The broad support, openness, fleshed-out features, educational materials, and much less lock-in makes it much more appealing for most consumers. That's not even getting into the number of pros that use it, or pros who would like to use it alongside a more advanced linear DAW (howdy).

IMO they aren't going anywhere, I can't argue that their pacing isn't fast enough, or that I like the limitations of their software. This whole thread again is hilarious to me, having been a customer since around 2004, they really have not changed at all. That's my point, they do a lot of things really well, and offer a huge value for the money up front, but they will deprecate a product if it's not making money, they will ignore your requests and release a huge amount of rompler style devices like we saw in Komplete 14. None of that is any different than 18 years ago when I first started using their products.

The issue isn't that NI have changed, it's that the initial excitement people have towards them wears off when they move at the glacial pace they've always moved at. You get Komplete and it's pretty fantastic, then by the third upgrade to it you're wondering why you upgraded, not much new content etc. I mean I really haven't ever heard anyone complain about Komplete when they first buy it, that's not how this game works.

[Hammy Havoc]

MPC has a solid history and it's a holy grail of HipHop culture. I wouldn't worry about this one's future even a bit.
Maschine doesn't have any of it. If it would be discontinued today, nobody would remember it in a decade or two while people will still remember how MPC influenced HipHop.

Akai as you think of it went tatty-bye in the mid '00s, the history and provenance thus being ultimately transient, and now a shadow of its former self, IMO. The MPC of today isn't the MPC of yesteryear, and it is still missing aspects of the workflow from decades ago, not to mention a modulation matrix ala MPC 4000. The modern MPC workflow is messy and convoluted. Not to discount what you're saying though, I do acknowledge the importance of the MPC as an instrument, and Roger Linn's delightful contributions to culture.

I have MPC One. It's not convoluted or messy. It's super easy and fast to use. People who are complaining that it's too difficult to learn are most likely the same who would be lost in Ableton Live or any other DAW. I learned to how make music with it without reading manual, in just few days and I'm not a MENSA member;)
It's impossible to expect that it will be as easy to use as MPC60 and at the same time it will have all the features that modern DAW has at the same time.

It is both convoluted and messy versus where it was twenty years ago with the original MPC platform, that's just a fact. And calling it a "modern DAW" is being extremely generous, by the same reductionism, that must thus mean Maschine is also a "modern DAW", when no, both are groovebox-samplers, hence integrating as VSTi in DAWs, because both are extremely limited versus what is actually considered a modern DAW. Neither Maschine nor MPC do PDC, and Maschine doesn't even support aftertouch, and the automation is pathetic on both by modern standards of DAW.

We will see what will die first: Maschine or MPC. My bet is on Maschine.
Especially that you can convert Maschine libraries to MPC format for free (dunno if it can be done other way around).

I don't think it matters which does or does not die first. The problem is stagnation and not meeting modern expectations for what a groovebox-sampler should be able to do.

Furthermore, I could not care less about sample libraries on either platform versus actual sample-based instrument platforms (Kontakt, HALion etc), physical modelling, real instruments, and synthesis. What you're saying smacks of fanboyism to me. Both Maschine and modern MPC are ultimately the same thing: like running a marathon with your legs tied together versus modern options. Sure, fun, but so are plenty of other ways to work.

With wanting a groovebox-sampler, I don't want a DAW-in-a-box, I want a non-linear pattern-based sequencer with pads and a rudimentary sampler. That's it. Everything else like Max4Live et al are all the cherry on top of a very clear-cut thing. As this very simplistic thing, neither Maschine or modern MPC have features you would expect, and beyond the basics, it's a lot of friction. Nobody is saying Maschine or MPC are difficult to learn and use, I'm saying they're slow beyond what they do and potentially can and should excel at as instruments. The groovebox-sampler has always been an instrument, not a DAW.

[gentleclockdivider]

We will see what will die first: Maschine or MPC. My bet is on Maschine.
Especially that you can convert Maschine libraries to MPC format for free (dunno if it can be done other way around).

THat's the whole point , Inmusic corp.will keep selling mpc's just because of the AKAI badge .
It will be endorsed by Jornas Rudes like forgotten BoomBap producuers and youngsters will keep falling for it , because it has that magical Red Akai Printed on the front .
Branding sells stuff, even if it has no resemblance with the original .

[nightjar]

Maybe the next step isn't more loops, that I agree with, but maybe it's cleaned up UX and AI browsing like XO and Sononym? I'm betting it is, auto tagging in nks etc.

Exactly this.

[soulata]

Maybe the next step isn't more loops, that I agree with, but maybe it's cleaned up UX and AI browsing like XO and Sononym? I'm betting it is, auto tagging in nks etc.

Exactly this.

This would be a great move from NI.

But I bet they're continue churning out more loops/sample instruments.

I went from upgrading every version to every second version of Komplete. Went from Ultimate to the standard one, too. There's simply too much I don't need in Ultimate.

k

[machinesworking]

This would be a great move from NI.

But I bet they're continue churning out more loops/sample instruments.

I went from upgrading every version to every second version of Komplete. Went from Ultimate to the standard one, too. There's simply too much I don't need in Ultimate.

I get Komplete every two or three versions. 2, 4, 5, 7, 10, 13. It makes it well worthwhile when you do get it. This is especially true with the last version being stalled by VST3, GUI, and Apple Silicon development that NI slept on for too long. I wan't Kontakt 7, but not bad enough to get an upgrade. There's good stuff in there, but I've been collecting plug ins and libraries for 20 years now, don't need anything.

[dayjob]

does native instruments (soundwide) listen to these criticisms? it's probably like complaining to the phone company or something. maybe someone over there will get wind of a big thread about this or that but it's likely not to make it up the admin/exec hierarchy there. and/or the person who pays attention to these kinds of things was recently laid off w/the rest of their team.