Recording and replaying NI VSTIs

[squirmish]

I'm posting this hoping my issues are not related to the general NI malaise documented extensively elsewhere in KVR, and hoping this is an okay place to post it.

No audio output from recorded (mainly Native Instrument) plugins

I have Waveform Pro 10.4.7, W10. Midi device: Ensoniq EPS16+ midi out into Roland UM-ONE, the UM-ONE is what Waveform sees as the midi device.

Example: Reaktor. I can hear audio while recording. When replaying I can see Reaktor receiving Midi, but there's no audio output. Clicking in the piano roll produces no audio.
Massive seems to behave consistently. But it crashes Waveform sometimes just when previewing a different preset.

Some instrument plugins work immediately when I set up a track, some don't output audio when triggered by my device, though do so with their internal keyboard, e.g. Addictive Keys.
Other manufacturers' VSTIs (generally) work OK - they respond to the keyboard, and the recorded midi replays. However, Collective and Waverazor (both 'Tracktion' plugins) are a bit random in this respect - sometimes neither respond to input or replay what they happily did the previous day.
Saving the couple of edits I have open, closing WF then reopening sometimes fixes some of these issues. Maybe there's a button I'm not seeing; it's mighty frustrating.

Any ideas?

Actions undertaken so far to address the issues

1.
Installed Waveform 11 free to test whether plugin handling might have been improved, but does not seem to be the case.

2.
Reinstalled Reaktor after validation result as per '4' below - no change when recording synths. Prior to and after reinstalling, however, TRK-01 (Reaktor via Komplete) works properly, seemingly the only one that does.

3.
I have an edit with one track containing a Komplete instrument and a midi clip that replays perfectly.
Copied the track and pasted below. That clip still replays. Delete the clip in the new track, record a new one. Replay: No audio output, but piano roll notes play.
No change whether placing the plugin before or after the level plugin.

Is this something to do with 'Configure plugin channels' (about which I know nothing)?

4.
Waveform 'Validate selected plugin: (fail)' (seems many functioning plugins produce *** FAILED: VALIDATION CRASHED)

See following:

pluginval v0.2.7 - JUCE v5.4.7
Started validating: C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit\Reaktor 6.dll
Random seed: 0x324f618
Validation started: 18 Jan 2023 6:56:10pm

Strictness level: 5
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Scan for known types: C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit\Reaktor 6.dll...
Num types found: 1

Testing plugin: VST-Reaktor 6-cb4077b9-4e695236
Native Instruments GmbH: Reaktor 6 v6.4.3.0
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Open plugin (cold)...

Time taken to open plugin (cold): 2 secs
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Open plugin (warm)...

Time taken to open plugin (warm): 1 sec
Running tests 1 times
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Plugin info...

Plugin name: Reaktor 6
Alternative names: Reaktor 6
SupportsDoublePrecision: no
Reported latency: 0
Reported taillength: 0

Time taken to run test: 0
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Plugin programs...
Num programs: 128
All program names checked

Changing program

Time taken to run test: 0
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Editor...

Time taken to open editor (cold): 432 ms
Time taken to open editor (warm): 393 ms

Time taken to run test: 845 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Open editor whilst processing...

Time taken to run test: 410 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Audio processing...
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [64]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [128]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [256]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [512]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [1024]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [64]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [128]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [256]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [512]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [1024]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [64]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [128]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [256]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [512]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [1024]

Time taken to run test: 34 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Plugin state...

Time taken to run test: 1 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Automation...
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [64] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [128] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [256] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [512] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [44100] and block size [1024] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [64] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [128] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [256] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [512] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [48000] and block size [1024] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [64] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [128] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [256] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [512] and sub-block size [32]
Testing with sample rate [96000] and block size [1024] and sub-block size [32]

Time taken to run test: 10 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Editor Automation...

Time taken to run test: 1 sec
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Automatable Parameters...

Time taken to run test: 39 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Basic bus...
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Listing available buses...
Inputs:
Named layouts: Stereo
Discrete layouts: None
Outputs:
Named layouts: Stereo, Stereo, Stereo, Stereo, Stereo, Stereo, Stereo, Stereo
Discrete layouts: None
Main bus num input channels: 2
Main bus num output channels: 2
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Enabling all buses...
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Disabling non-main busses...
!!! WARNING: Disabling non-main buses failed
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Restoring default layout...
Main bus num input channels: 2
Main bus num output channels: 2

Time taken to run test: 3 ms
All tests completed successfully
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Starting test: pluginval / Editor DPI Awareness...
Testing opening Editor with DPI Awareness disabled

Time taken to run test: 382 ms
*** FAILED: Timeout after 30 secs

*** FAILED: VALIDATION CRASHED

4: UnhandledExceptionFilter + 0x1e7

5: memset + 0x13b0

6: _C_specific_handler + 0x96

7: _chkstk + 0x11f

8: RtlRaiseException + 0x434

9: KiUserExceptionDispatcher + 0x2e

11: VSTPluginMain + 0x4d01

12: VSTPluginMain + 0x2ac127

13: execute_onexit_table + 0x156

14: execute_onexit_table + 0x7b

15: execute_onexit_table + 0x34

16: VSTPluginMain + 0x77a266

17: VSTPluginMain + 0x77a38c

18: RtlActivateActivationContextUnsafeFast + 0x11d

19: LdrShutdownProcess + 0x24c

20: RtlExitUserProcess + 0xad

21: FatalExit + 0xb

27: BaseThreadInitThunk + 0x14

28: RtlUserThreadStart + 0x21

*****************************
It may be obvious I'm no power user, so writing any code to solve my issues possibly won't fly, and I can't afford to buy the Komplete Kontrol controller keyboard. However, if there's no obvious solutions, suggestions for alternatives to NI's otherwise great synths are welcome.

Thanks

[squirmish]

Well, this is turning out to be a perfect metaphor for my studio issue: write a question (play a vsti), hit send (replay clip) and question hangs in hyperspace (no audio is output).

[jabe]

I'll download Komplete Start and see how it behaves. Probably be tomorrow or later before I can get back.

[aMUSEd]

I can record Reaktor fine in Waveform 12 so not sure what the problem is

[Peter Widdicombe]

I remember getting Komplletly frustrated with NI before. It's one of the few VST sets that you have to tweak input/output settings WITHIN NI in a big way to "make it work" in a DAW. Once you've become assimilated to it's way of working, it may make sense.

[squirmish]

I did just recently upgrade to 12 pro, though haven't yet had a chance to try all of this again. Glad to hear there's an avenue to check out Peter.