Bitwig VS Ableton

[whyterabbyt]

The midi features Bitwig doesn't have can be replaced with Scaler.

The warping can be replaced by Serato Studio.
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If they would improve the midi capabilities, I would be happy. Make the piano roll as good as FL Studio and I'll be a customer for life.

The MIDI capabilities can be replaced by FL Studio used as a VST.

[EnGee]

Same, I view PUSH2 + Live as 'one thing', PUSH just feels like a hardware instrument it is so well integrated with Lives instruments and fx.

More than that. It's an extension of it. People using Live without Push2 are missing on key usability features. My opinion, though

I had Push2 and sold it. It didn't do any additional benefit to the already midi keyboard I have! I don't do performance, so using mouse and keys is more practical for me.

[SLiC]

Same, I view PUSH2 + Live as 'one thing', PUSH just feels like a hardware instrument it is so well integrated with Lives instruments and fx.

More than that. It's an extension of it. People using Live without Push2 are missing on key usability features. My opinion, though

I had Push2 and sold it. It didn't do any additional benefit to the already midi keyboard I have! I don't do performance, so using mouse and keys is more practical for me.

Obviously not for everyone but I am mainly a hardware guy so having it next to my synths gave me control over everything I needed without being at my computer desk- I could us it for looping guitars with the foot pedals, recording midi from my hardware and using Lives drums and samples as if it was hardware. I know this isn't for everyone but I like to try and record as much music as I can before going to the 'producer mode in front of a big computer screen- seems like 2 different sides of the brain to me...

[xbitz]

I prefer Bitwig over Ableton Live.... if it wasn't for Push (I know there is a usable Bigwig script) I would use Logic only

IMO Logic only can be mentioned here because Toybox has created host song position clock driven/based modules in Reaktor (source is the Position device in the free pack https://www.toyboxaudio.com/pages/free-pack-details basically works as the phase signal in Grid)

but they exist so Logic+Reaktor is also an option in this league

[pdxindy]

I prefer Bitwig over Ableton Live.... if it wasn't for Push (I know there is a usable Bigwig script) I would use Logic only

Same, I view PUSH2 + Live as 'one thing', PUSH just feels like a hardware instrument it is so well integrated with Lives instruments and fx. I have never used it with Bitwig, I tried but I just didn't see the point (as I have Live!)- I think the Novation Launchpad works better with Bitwig if you are Bitwig only (1-1 script)

I never really got into Push with Live (or with Bitwig). I was keen on it at first, I found I didn't particularly like Push as a playing surface. I either use my Linnstrument or a regular keyboard (maybe Osmose when it arrives). There were also enough tasks where I still had to use the screen and mouse that Push ended up feeling like it was in my way and not useful enough to be taking up a central spot in my studio. So I put it off to the side and then it just faded out. Finally I boxed it up and never used it again.

Every time I try a different midi controller, I always end up back with the screen and mouse as my preferred tools for navigating a project, adding tracks, instruments, and all the other tasks involved with creating music.

[pdxindy]

I know this isn't for everyone but I like to try and record as much music as I can before going to the 'producer mode in front of a big computer screen- seems like 2 different sides of the brain to me...

I'm often doing it that way too... I find the mouse and screen a more efficient way to do exactly that. For me, midi controllers like Push always add more friction to getting stuff done quickly. Great if it works for you...

I've spent quite a bit of money on midi controllers and always end up back on the mouse and screen. My latest try is Intech Studio modular midi modules. I bought them a few months back on sale but haven't actually set them up in my studio yet. I can fit them into a small space (depth-wise) so at least they will not interfere with the primary hardware in front of me. That way they can potentially be useful some of the time without being in the way.

[stash98]

I made some tracks on Bitwig but returned to Live and have not looked back. Mainly because the amount of sequencers and samplers available in M4L format are incredible. There constantly are new creative ways to use Ableton plugins and its DAW so I am always able to get new ideas.

Ableton has basically taken over for me as my main studio tool.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I know this isn't for everyone but I like to try and record as much music as I can before going to the 'producer mode in front of a big computer screen- seems like 2 different sides of the brain to me...

I'm often doing it that way too... I find the mouse and screen a more efficient way to do exactly that. For me, midi controllers like Push always add more friction to getting stuff done quickly. Great if it works for you...

I've spent quite a bit of money on midi controllers and always end up back on the mouse and screen. My latest try is Intech Studio modular midi modules. I bought them a few months back on sale but haven't actually set them up in my studio yet. I can fit them into a small space (depth-wise) so at least they will not interfere with the primary hardware in front of me. That way they can potentially be useful some of the time without being in the way.

If you're a mouse and keyboard person, and you use Windows, you should check The Surface Dial with Elephant software for it. Turns the one knob into a dial for whatever you last touched on screen. Easy replacement for midi controllers. Though I still like my Novation Remote SL for controlling simple classic emulations like a juno or prophet or something.

[EnGee]

Obviously not for everyone but I am mainly a hardware guy so having it next to my synths gave me control over everything I needed without being at my computer desk- I could us it for looping guitars with the foot pedals, recording midi from my hardware and using Lives drums and samples as if it was hardware. I know this isn't for everyone but I like to try and record as much music as I can before going to the 'producer mode in front of a big computer screen- seems like 2 different sides of the brain to me...

Yes, I can imagine your workflow. You have a very nice collection of hardware synths. I thought to buy either Argon 8, Cobalt 8 or Hydrasynth. But I heard that Cobalt 8 has weak audio outputs. I suppose that Argon 8 has the same problem? I don't know about Hydrasynth though (about audio outputs).

I have my MODX6 which has weak/noisy audio outputs (but the usb audio is fine, however it is useless for me if I only hear it on headphones! while outputs for my monitors (Yamaha HS7) are noisy). My DM12D surprisingly has clean audio outputs.

Anyway, the problems with hardware (especially the audio outputs) are putting me off to use them. I'm trying to replicate the agressive behaviour of some of the hardware in Massive X and PhasePlant. I think I can as those are very capable synths. That's why I'm using mostly just one midi keyboard (my MODX6 for now) and mouse/keys combo for controlling the workflow, which is mainly virtual.

[S950]

I know this isn't for everyone but I like to try and record as much music as I can before going to the 'producer mode in front of a big computer screen- seems like 2 different sides of the brain to me...

I'm often doing it that way too... I find the mouse and screen a more efficient way to do exactly that. For me, midi controllers like Push always add more friction to getting stuff done quickly. Great if it works for you...

I've spent quite a bit of money on midi controllers and always end up back on the mouse and screen. My latest try is Intech Studio modular midi modules. I bought them a few months back on sale but haven't actually set them up in my studio yet. I can fit them into a small space (depth-wise) so at least they will not interfere with the primary hardware in front of me. That way they can potentially be useful some of the time without being in the way.

If you're a mouse and keyboard person, and you use Windows, you should check The Surface Dial with Elephant software for it. Turns the one knob into a dial for whatever you last touched on screen. Easy replacement for midi controllers. Though I still like my Novation Remote SL for controlling simple classic emulations like a juno or prophet or something.

Can you confirm that this gets you around the stepping that occurs when using knobs via MIDI CC to control a VST parameter? Is it as high resolution as using a mouse or is using the Dial to transmit MIDI CC?

[Echoes in the Attic]

I know this isn't for everyone but I like to try and record as much music as I can before going to the 'producer mode in front of a big computer screen- seems like 2 different sides of the brain to me...

I'm often doing it that way too... I find the mouse and screen a more efficient way to do exactly that. For me, midi controllers like Push always add more friction to getting stuff done quickly. Great if it works for you...

I've spent quite a bit of money on midi controllers and always end up back on the mouse and screen. My latest try is Intech Studio modular midi modules. I bought them a few months back on sale but haven't actually set them up in my studio yet. I can fit them into a small space (depth-wise) so at least they will not interfere with the primary hardware in front of me. That way they can potentially be useful some of the time without being in the way.

If you're a mouse and keyboard person, and you use Windows, you should check The Surface Dial with Elephant software for it. Turns the one knob into a dial for whatever you last touched on screen. Easy replacement for midi controllers. Though I still like my Novation Remote SL for controlling simple classic emulations like a juno or prophet or something.

Can you confirm that this gets you around the stepping that occurs when using knobs via MIDI CC to control a VST parameter? Is it as high resolution as using a mouse or is using the Dial to transmit MIDI CC?

Good question - I don't have my stuff set up right now so I can't check. But it works as more of a mouse movement emulation, so I believe it would not be limited by midi cc values. I htink the resolution was very high.

[machinesworking]

I never really got into Push with Live (or with Bitwig). I was keen on it at first, I found I didn't particularly like Push as a playing surface. I either use my Linnstrument or a regular keyboard (maybe Osmose when it arrives). There were also enough tasks where I still had to use the screen and mouse that Push ended up feeling like it was in my way and not useful enough to be taking up a central spot in my studio. So I put it off to the side and then it just faded out. Finally I boxed it up and never used it again.

Every time I try a different midi controller, I always end up back with the screen and mouse as my preferred tools for navigating a project, adding tracks, instruments, and all the other tasks involved with creating music.

Curious, I use Push all the time with Bitwig and Live, for the main parts anyway, Session View clip firing and mixing. Drum programming as well. I wouldn't want to mouse with any of those things, but I get it when it comes to using the 8x8 Launchpad as an input device for notes, if I recall you have a Linnstrument and there's no comparison there.

I've never bought into the idea that Push etc. are supposed to give you the ability to "not look at your screen" etc. that was and is BS, of course Push isn't going to be as useful in MIID editing and other tasks as mousing on a screen, but when it comes to mixing and clip firing it's super useful IMO.

[a9k1tp]

Ableton Live consists of minimal design and feature set with great instruments and effects. M4L devices are powerful tools which are only available to Ableton's users. If you rely heavily on M4L and think you cannot do the job efficiently without M4L device of your choice, then you may never happily switch to any other DAW.

Bitwig Studio was built with the same fundamental workflow as Ableton Live. But there were some critical corrections and improvements in that workflow. Apart from these important changes, Bitwig Studio also provided better file and plugin manager, inspector, and modular devices. Clip launcher and Arrange view can be used side by side. Workflow wise, Bitwig Studio is a no brainer.

Comparing the devices, the modular approach of Bitwig Studio wins again. The modulators are incredibly powerful, and some devices like reverb and delay can load any effect or plugin in their feedback chain. Overall, Bitwig Studio have better and more powerful device ecosystem, but Ableton have some really great quality filters and effects which are second to none.

Grid modular instrument and effect creation environment. Grid is musician friendly where one can create his own instrument or fx with little effort. Max is like audio programming language. It is very powerful. There are many great developers who build fantastic M4L devices. You may not want to create your own Max4Live devices because of the steeper learning curve.

- For someone who is a beginner or not coming from Ableton Live, I would highly recommend Bitwig Studio.
- If you are already an Ableton user who cannot live without one of a specific M4L device, just don't leave Ableton. If you can live without M4L devices, go for Bitwig.

[reydercillo]

Am sure ableton is more reliable !

[S950]

Am sure ableton is more reliable !

I haven’t found that to be the case at all. I’ve experienced many crashes, the latest is Live crashing when loading an instance of Taipei. It worked for a while, then all of a sudden not. Works in Reaper and Bitwig. I’ve found Max devices to be kind of flaky as well. Ableton has been by far the DAW that has crashed on me the most. YMMV of course.