Image Line Acquires UVI

[seangm]

I'm speaking about plugins from other companies, not hypothetic situation. But what already happened to me in 20 years.

I understand people can do music as hobby, and it's awesome, but some of us, work with music.
If i produce a song with a specific DAW and certain plugins, and for certain reason i cannot open the project because of that (and it happened) and i have a client with deadline, it's a damn mess for me.

Using another DAW, or other plugins is not a viable option when you need to open and continue a work you already started. All this would be lots of efforts and money, for what reason? Because i'm not a thief and i bought software i use. While in the mean time thief can keep working on their project with their cracked software.

This is not an experience a paid customer should have, neither an experience a company should "sell".

And don't foget, it's proven the fact that healthy business can be done just by running a user friendly system. ImageLine are doing that from ever! So what's the point to change that?


I just want to write a couple of line for people who doesn't care about that and do not understand the reason of this issue. Leaving out the reasons i already wrote, i think it's important for everyone to keep in mind, that every one have differend needs and situations. So if something does not apply for you doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. Last but not least, a day you may change your own needs too.

Yeah, but this are today's standards. Subscription and licence checking works for large parts in the professional world. Just consider Microsoft or Adobe Products Why should it be different in the music world?

Forced subscription only works in professional spaces where there is a monopoly by one company who owns the "industry standard" tools (ie. Adobe). Luckily that is not the case in the audio world since there are many excellent tools available from different developers. If people want a subscription option along with perpetual or rent-to-own options then no big deal but why would you think you can force subscription on people in the music world that don't want it when there are so many good non-subscription options available?

[tony10000]

It is certainly becoming a trend even without monopolies.

Pro Tools, Slate, Reason, UVI, Splice, Output, etc.

[Frankie.T]

I'm speaking about plugins from other companies, not hypothetic situation. But what already happened to me in 20 years.

I understand people can do music as hobby, and it's awesome, but some of us, work with music.
If i produce a song with a specific DAW and certain plugins, and for certain reason i cannot open the project because of that (and it happened) and i have a client with deadline, it's a damn mess for me.

Using another DAW, or other plugins is not a viable option when you need to open and continue a work you already started. All this would be lots of efforts and money, for what reason? Because i'm not a thief and i bought software i use. While in the mean time thief can keep working on their project with their cracked software.

This is not an experience a paid customer should have, neither an experience a company should "sell".

And don't foget, it's proven the fact that healthy business can be done just by running a user friendly system. ImageLine are doing that from ever! So what's the point to change that?


I just want to write a couple of line for people who doesn't care about that and do not understand the reason of this issue. Leaving out the reasons i already wrote, i think it's important for everyone to keep in mind, that every one have differend needs and situations. So if something does not apply for you doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. Last but not least, a day you may change your own needs too.

Yeah, but this are today's standards. Subscription and licence checking works for large parts in the professional world. Just consider Microsoft or Adobe Products Why should it be different in the music world?

Today standards to me sounds like "i was doing my job" " i was following an order".
If everyone go out and kill people doesn't make kill people ethical or legit.

It has happened to all of us.

It has happened to people who spent money, not to thief. Does it sounds good for you?

I have been making electronic music for almost 40 years and I have seen many platforms and pieces of software that I used go "poof": Yamaha MSX, Atari ST, Hybrid Arts, Logic (PC), Cakewalk/Sonar, Turtle Beach, Yamaha SW1000XG, LinPlug, etc. Many thousands of dollars of stuff that I cannot use. That is a part of life.

That said, I would like to see companies like Image-Line remain financially healthy and viable so that they can keep developing software. If they have to use C/R and other methods of copy protection to do that, I am okay with it. I have other options to keep working if I cannot access a certain piece of software and create stems of important projects so that I can use them on any DAW.

At some point, the Reg Key situation got way out of hand with folks not only pirating software for their own use, but widely sharing licenses, selling pirated versions of FL Studio on e-commerce sites, and bad actors using it to deliver viral payloads. I think IL did the right thing for the good of their investors and their company.

I want to see Image-Line to remain healthy too, this move is just not needed though to stay healthy. And the proof come from their own words and move, after 20+ years of piracy they are on top and able to buy other companies.

I understand the very bad situation of people who sell reg key and sh*t like that. It's just awful.
This doesn't change the fact that legit users are whose are damaged the most in case of troubles.

As i wrote, maybe you and others doesn't care, doesn't need a more reliable system, or just are fine with alternatives, but this doesn't apply for everyone.
We should just understand in discussion, that other people need matter too, even if we don't share the same need.
And since the way it was, worked very well to being successfull and healthy i think they should continue that way.


It comes now in my mind a similar topic i read in another place, where people who bought certain software was back using a cracked version because it was a pain in the *ss to fix the issues, and had problems with updates or just because of new pc.
This bring people back to the black side, after all if you have to crack a software you bought just to avoid hassle, why bother to spend money at all?

In my opinion there are better alternative. One of them may be to offer some free goodies that need an online account. I.e. something like Arcade by Output
Even with this system you cannot stop piracy, people will just use a 6 months older versions, not a problem at all imo. But if you offer something more if logged, spending some money may be a valuable effort people will think about over a cracked version.

Ofc it's important to offer something that it's not daw-related, otherwise it's even worse, but something like Arcade, would be a nice addition that make the transition even nicer, and still user friendly for people who prefer the old auth system.

That's just an idea (IL feel free to steel it) but other ideas can work too. I feel incentive are more effective, and less punishing for legit customers that mantain the freedom to use their software regardles external factors.

[tony10000]

I want to see Image-Line to remain healthy too, this move is just not needed though to stay healthy. And the proof come from their own words and move, after 20+ years of piracy they are on top and able to buy other companies.

They are "are on top and able to buy other companies" because they were able to attract investors to make that happen, not because of piracy.

A privately-held company with no investors has the luxury of allowing rampant piracy, but when investors are involved, that is not a good look at all. They want ROI (return on investment), not freeloaders.

[seangm]

It is certainly becoming a trend even without monopolies.

Pro Tools, Slate, Reason, UVI, Splice, Output, etc.

From what I read over at Gearspace people are jumping off of Pro Tools like rats off a sinking ship. UVI, Slate and Reason offer a subscription option but it's only an option, they still have perpetual. Output has arcade but they also still offer perpetual licenses. So sub is being offered as an option by some. If it works for you great, no skin off anyone's back if there is a sub option. People like me who don't want a sub though will skip the forced sub companies.

[Schnickschnack]

I dont understand.. Which copy protection system does fl studio use and whats wrong with it?

[Frankie.T]

I want to see Image-Line to remain healthy too, this move is just not needed though to stay healthy. And the proof come from their own words and move, after 20+ years of piracy they are on top and able to buy other companies.

They are "are on top and able to buy other companies" because they were able to attract investors to make that happen, not because of piracy.

A privately-held company with no investors has the luxury of allowing rampant piracy, but when investors are involved, that is not a good look at all. They want ROI (return on investment), not freeloaders.

They wrote the money they used to buy these companies doesn't came from investors, but from selling their products

[tony10000]

It is certainly becoming a trend even without monopolies.

Pro Tools, Slate, Reason, UVI, Splice, Output, etc.

From what I read over at Gearspace people are jumping off of Pro Tools like rats off a sinking ship. UVI, Slate and Reason offer a subscription option but it's only an option, they still have perpetual. Output has arcade but they also still offer perpetual licenses. So sub is being offered as an option by some. If it works for you great, no skin off anyone's back if there is a sub option. People like me who don't want a sub though will skip the forced sub companies.

They are home studio hobbyists, not professional recording studios. Every pro recording studio has to use Pro Tools...there is really no other choice if they want to stay in business.

And what starts out as "only an option" may eventually turn into "your only option".

[seangm]

del

[tony10000]

You can guess at what might happen in the future and that's fine, it's only a "guess" which is as valid as my guess or anyone else's. With the way the audio market is currently with so many choices and so many people seemingly against subscription I don't see it happening. But hey feel free to believe whatever you want, I'm not going to stop you. Just chiming in with my 2c.

With consolidation rapidly increasing fueled by private equity cash, expect to see a lot more "subscription only" models. PE investors love that model because it means a steady stream of cash flows in each and every month to cover expenses and profit. And industry consolidation means fewer choices. I would rather have the pay once/enjoy forever model that IL is selling even if it involves an unobtrusive C/R scheme for validation than subscription only. But, hey, that is just me. YMMV!

[WatchTheGuitar]

It is certainly becoming a trend even without monopolies.

Pro Tools, Slate, Reason, UVI, Splice, Output, etc.

I don't know about the others but Reason, UVI and Output all offer subscription options, but it isn't forced subscription like happened when Adobe went cloud only with their image suite.

All those still sell the individual on premise plugins.

[seangm]

You can guess at what might happen in the future and that's fine, it's only a "guess" which is as valid as my guess or anyone else's. With the way the audio market is currently with so many choices and so many people seemingly against subscription I don't see it happening. But hey feel free to believe whatever you want, I'm not going to stop you. Just chiming in with my 2c.

With consolidation rapidly increasing fueled by private equity cash, expect to see a lot more "subscription only" models. PE investors love that model because it means a steady stream of cash flows in each and every month to cover expenses and profit. And industry consolidation means fewer choices. I would rather have the pay once/enjoy forever model that IL is selling even if it involves an unobtrusive C/R scheme for validation than subscription only. But, hey, that is just me. YMMV!

I agree if enough PE firms buy up and consolidate everything to the point where it is basically a monopoly then you would have an Adobe situation and they could force subscription on everyone. We'll see what happens, but I'm hoping we don't get to that point.

[tony10000]

It is certainly becoming a trend even without monopolies.

Pro Tools, Slate, Reason, UVI, Splice, Output, etc.

I don't know about the others but Reason, UVI and Output all offer subscription options, but it isn't forced subscription like happened when Adobe went cloud only with their image suite.

All those still sell the individual on premise plugins.

Adobe did at one point as well. Just sayin'.

[kevvvvv]

After spending 5 mins reading this thread it's now following the usual track of complaining about copy protection, a decades old endless argument now, and whose complaints never amount to jack in the real world

- instead of discussing the great & glorious possibilities the UVI and IL tie-up might bring, like bundled lower cost UVI plugs which is the big gravy from this deal so far

- or even what UVI and IL can learn from each other

Yawn

[tony10000]

After spending 5 mins reading this thread it's now following the usual track of complaining about copy protection, a decades old endless argument now, and whose complaints never amount to jack in the real world

- instead of discussing the great & glorious possibilities the UVI and IL tie-up might bring, like bundled lower cost UVI plugs which is the big gravy from this deal so far

- or even what UVI and IL can learn from each other

Yawn

Yep, the REAL story gets drowned out by noise...