Panning tracks in TRACTION?

[Johnny Rocker]

Hi all... I am resigned to the realization that I will never be proficient in using TRACTION (or any DAW). But this forum has been extremely helpful in the past, so here we go again. I have the FREE version of TRACTION and use an AUDIENT iD14 as an interface. I have a song with about 14 tracks of percussion instruments, some mic'd, some from a keyboard. I would like to pan these tracks to different R/L places in the stereo mix. Each track has a pan feature but, doesn't seem to work like I wish it would. When I pan to the Left, the track still plays on both sides of the Master out. When I pan to the Right, the track doesn't play at all. Anyone have an idea of what I'm doing wrong or what I'm missing?

[Watchful]

Sounds like you're not listening in stereo.

If you use stereo headphones, use the headphone jack and see if the problem reoccurs.

If you're using audio cabling from your ID14 to your PC, make sure you have a mono cable going from the left output to the PC's left input, and from the right output to the PC's right input.

I think Waveform is outputting in stereo just fine--but you're not connecting back to your PC with stereo, just the left output.

I could be wrong, but your second-and-third-to-last sentences are critical.

[Johnny Rocker]

Thanks Watchful, The problem may be in how I have the Audient id14 configured but I'm not sure. I have no cabling from the interface to the pc except the usb cable that came with the id14. I'm not confident that the computer is set up properly either. When you say "audio cabling", are you referring to the usb cable? I don't know about the pc's Rt or Left input. There are two L/R outputs on the id14 and I send one pair to an ALESIS Masterlink to record the stereo Master OUT. So far I have been recording mono backing tracks so I haven't been paying attention to the stereo situation. I do use stereo headphones and even when I pan the Master Out the situation is the same. The TRACTION Manual makes it seem like the pan should operate like you would normally think and it doesn't go into any specific instructions probably "cause it's such a "no brainer". Anyway, I'm stumped. Thanks for the reply and any more thoughts you may have. J. Rocker

[pough]

You're going to have to try to track down where the problem is happening before you can begin to fix it. Waveform has a master output meter that at least shows you what it thinks is happening and there are meters on every track. If they are showing something different from what you're hearing, chances are the problem is in hardware, not software.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Do verify on recording or playback that both left and right meters on each track (right side) are bouncing. That should verify the VST output is on both channels in the first place. You see the same when recording, plus if that track is selected when recording audio you get a large set of meters (or one if mono) at the bottom.

Oh, and if you recorded mono in the first place for AUDIO tracks, you may have unknowingly recorded only on the left track. When recording there is an option in the panel at the bottom "treat input as a stereo pair" which will record left and right separately - but if you have a MONO input you may be recording a stereo track with only left input!!. Turning off that setting, and you record just a MONO track which you can then pan as you wish. Bonus - if you are recording guitar and mike, you can record 2 separate mono tracks at once !

[Watchful]

Everyone's systems and setups are different, but a thought: when I active an input on a track (on the left), mine tells me what it's thinking: "Input 1+2" tells me I've got stereo going in. Based on Peter's thought above, what does your input say? It might say "Left" or "Right" or some variation. That might help us.

Rest assured, you CAN do what you want to do, and we all want to help you get there! We can solve this one.

[Johnny Rocker]

Wow... Thanks for the suggestions. I never get 2 big meters. My Input NEVER says Left or Right. Only "Analog1" or "Analog2". It could say " S/PDIF", but I'm no longer using it. When you say "mine tells me what it's thinking" do you mean that you have Popups turned on? "Input 1+2 tells me I've got stereo going in." Are you saying that you can record stereo on a single track? What is mostly puzzling me is that a Mono track when panned Rt will show only Rt on the Track Meter but on the Main Out Meter both sides are basically equal even when the track is solo'd, but NO sound. When I pan the track to the Left the trk meter will show sound only left but the Main Out still shows sound on both sides, with sound. Also there are 2 separate places to set the Pan, I think independent of each other. One is above the Volume control that I can drag L or R. The other is in the details area that comes up when I highlight the track. It will say Pan: Centered even though the track meter says Full Left. "We can solve this one." Thanks for the encouragement all of you.

[pough]

It might be more helpful to show us rather than tell us. In almost 100% of cases of new users being baffled the problem has to do with incorrect assumptions, which tend not to be described well, and are unimaginable by long-time users.

[pough]

Here are some helpful tips:

1) Expand the control panel at the bottom to "Useful Mode". It has a lot of stuff that can be useful.

2) The Mixer is really just a view of what's already show at the right side of each track. There is no track volume or pan. Those controls are in a plugin. You can add as many of them to a track as you like. The last one will pretend to be the track volume and pan in the Mixer, but it's really just a plugin.

3) Audio files in a track show as clips and can be stereo or mono. You can also select just the left or right channel of an audio clip. Not only that, you can pan an audio clip. These options are easy to see when the Control Panel is in "Useful Mode".

4) If you have a stereo audio input you can separate it into two mono input channels. This option is easy to see when the Control Panel is in "Useful Mode".

What plugins do you have on your master track?

[Peter Widdicombe]

Yeah, good one. What effects are being used? If they're not also stereo, it might cause the collapse to mono on output. For a test, remove (or disable) the effects.

Oh, and to see the big input meters, you have to actually click on the "input selection chevron", i.e. your input selection on the track, not just the track itself. You get different details at the bottom depending on what is selected...
i.e. Track, clip, Input. This theme follows all through Waveform. You get details, if "useful mode" window is open, on what is selected.

Feature Request: to the devs, please, PLEASE set default to USEFUL MODE for new installations !!
Sooo many new users are missing this wonderful tool, and by the time you have enough tracks that the screen estate can use compact mode, you're figured out how to toggle it, if you haven't given up because you can't find settings !!

[Johnny Rocker]

Thanks again ... Little by little these replies and suggestions are giving me a clearer picture of what's going on. I don't think I've seen the term "useful mode" but, I always click on the little arrow on the bottom panel which then re-arranges the transport controls etc. Also, I've never considered the Volume/Pan on each track to be plugins. I'm going to take some time re-looking at this and I'll Post later.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Yeah, there is no "useful mode" - that's a little private nickname that I like to use. It's actually the normal rather than compact mode of the controls panel.

Leave it open in that mode, and tell me if it's useful or not...

[Johnny Rocker]

Thanks Peter... I always use that, because it is so useful. I just spent some time looking for that phrase. Thanks for clarifying. I made a new proj. to try some recording setups on the tracks. I think every thing is working fine... except ME. I've learned quite a few things from everyone's suggestions. I did record these tracks in Mono but, only in the left side. That's why I could pan to the left and still hear it, but, pan to the right and no sound. I'm not done with you guys yet cause every time I try to follow your tips I find something else. If you think of anything else, please don't hesitate to reply. I wish I could take you, Pough, Watchful and others out to lunch. I haven't even started to use Markers, Warp, MIDI, Comping and things I haven't even found yet. I really appreciate you guys and gals in this forum!

[Watchful]

You're always welcome. Hope you're having fun and not getting discouraged. Sounds like you're where you need to be, though: everything you discover gives you another creative idea.

You could convert those left-stereo tracks to mono*, but then you'd lose your original plan of panning each instrument to a different location. I think the safest thing to do is to re-record, if possible, keeping them centered in stereo.

Here's what I would do: I record each instrument to a separate track, keeping the panning plug-in dead center.

Then, when you have them all, slide the pan plugin setting left or right by whatever amount you want. Slight differences sound cool, but big differences sound big!

For example, I would keep the kick and snare dead center. But toms, cymbals, etc., I would offset by 10% from each other. So, hi-hat maybe 30% to the left, crash 20% left, tom 10% left, mid-tom 10% right, ride 20% right, low tom 30% right, etc., so that they sound really spread out in the mix. Too much? Fine--pull those percentages in to make them tighter. Want them wider? Go ahead!

By using the panning plugin, you can always change your mind later. Ditto for other instruments.

*Because Waveform uses the pan/level tool as a plug in, you can use this to your advantage. You can insert a *second* copy of the plugin into a track. Two reasons why you might:

1. You can take a left-mono track and slide it all the way to the right to re-center the audio... then make fine adjustments left or right with the second plugin.

2. You can put an effect plugin between the two, and control the volumes differently, almost like a makeshift compressor. You go hot and loud with the first level into a saturation plug in, then use the second level plug in to bring the level back down to normal...so you get super-hot distortion but still stay in the green and yellow. Or do the opposite: have a track that's too hot? Bring its level way down with the first, feed it into some effects, and use the second to adjust the level to where you really want it.

[Johnny Rocker]

Thanks Watchful... I will give your suggestions a try. I am having fun and rarely get discouraged. A friend always reminds me "we're not curing cancer here!"