Audio Rate modulation MSoundfactory

[josejherring]

Is it possible in MSoundfactory to use an Osc object to control the PW and/or tuning of another separate Osc? In other words to use an Osc like an LFO but full range.

[Held]

Any LFO can go up to 20kHz, so you can use those. There's also the option to follow the note frequency, so it matches whatever note you're playing.

If you need to use an oscillator for both sound and modulation, you can use the 'GenerateCustomMod' module and the 'Custom X' modulator where X corresponds to the channel in the GenerateCustomMod module.

There's also the 'Merger' module which allows you to do frequency modulation with two OSCs among other things

[josejherring]

@Held,

That's deep. Thanks.

[josejherring]

Audio Rate modulation on MSoundfactory sounds fantastic.

[] Peter:H []

Please note that "GenerateCustomMod" has some "challenges".
It was built into MSF late, it was through one of my FRs. It was not in the original concept.
Therefore it comes with some quirks
1.) It adds latency. On my system.12,5 msec. That means signals that go through it arrive late at the target.
2.) Oscillators use a technique called "Ripples" in order to avoide aliasing, which means a saw tooth is not really a "clean" sawtooth.
I wrote some posts about "GenerateCustomMod" ... about the points above and some other experiments. You might find them in the forum...
Again - Problem in MSF is that Cross-Oscillator modulation was not in the initial concept, not like in more "traditional" modular synth emulations. But as a replacement you have different, capable modules like the specific FM module.

And there's another thing to mention - Filters. It seems that there's some specialized Filters (FastFilter is the name I think) which could be used for audio rate modulation. So this means the others are probably not meant to be used for audio rate modulation.

[Held]

1.) It adds latency. On my system.12,5 msec. That means signals that go through it arrive late at the target

Does that still happen for you? I tried generating a signal via GenerateCustomMod and the Set module, and the rendered result was perfectly in sync with the original oscillator. Am I missing something here?

[] Peter:H []

1.) It adds latency. On my system.12,5 msec. That means signals that go through it arrive late at the target

Does that still happen for you? I tried generating a signal via GenerateCustomMod and the Set module, and the rendered result was perfectly in sync with the original oscillator. Am I missing something here?

It does.
My setup Bitwig 4.1.2, Windows 10, MSF 15.01.
Find MSF Patch in Code Section below. It has original left, the mixed in via GenCustMod-Set mixed to the right.
Played note C1 with this patch in bitwig.
Then Bounced it to Audio, see picture below. Only added the blue line for better reference.

You can clearly see that there's a difference. Even when you say "But the signal seems inverted"...I say this is because of the delay. But even if you inverted it there is a short offset.
Conclusion: GenCustMod still introduced delay. Actually all these kind of feedbacks in any SoftwareEmulation introduce delays due to coding reaons (otherwise you'll end up coding infinite loops when done naively), but it seems in MSF the delay is quite big and not only a few samples.

MSF GenCustMod V15.png

And btw I chose "Sawtooth" and the bounced audio shows that the sawtooth is not a "clean sawtooth", it is kind of bent and has ripples around the edges. You can see that better if you increase the zoom-in.

Code: Select all

$eNqtl11vozgUhu-zK5BzOzN85LMSMErTtFtt02RD2uleunCaWDU2MiaTzq9f2QRC0zQQde-Afl6f8x5sY7s-tzE1NiBSwpmH7B8WMoCFPCJs5aFMvnwfop9+y50GPGPRNQ4lF28pSEnYKjXaHrKR0R5dXUEi1x6yfvSQ0b6h-BnTdImfdfckIpKLgPwBD9lO3-42tLrV1glO36o9f-3zkKQ4TqhOwULG3SJIKJESNG57yLHs4WGzo2NN8fbuenZJefiaB+w4yJhjgSkFSv5gmbtExmPh+GLYcS76yHeD7HlOsxVhO5O+m78G780ejRAAhVBClCs8ZH3rId+dZTLJpGNMGH6mECkvZjFqWjwYl5i9jnnGpB7+OqP0HsfgoVkaEkqx5MLQYdPXW6bLoR5nmfSQg4xDFBlPeph-Va-vqrEt8xMn7QdGUs7y7MacUpykKstPTPpusMYJGMFyMp8vJsFkqbPZYJqpD9tR3sz3gcqGWrMByM9cdguXAUhtz2lm77iH6eyq-ahSNvZp7CavjXx3YVXaUxFaHhpnqeSxyu4hGbHoiv9mObsUmKUvXMR6VlnG5P6xqMuFLsbC8l2zDPiF6twAA4El5KlMeaSyuWVJJm9ZBFtr5zevXTkrboCNpzzSNbN0zXq1U2JMSeKhe84AGe0pYSTOYg99V13TTMKnhTWbm5mSLYhjBvbvtnZRGOofm-J6FGTkS6wySKXBzhMvF4Rt1dqfY8YFjvFOWr47-59xZ2d0T7yrg3VgsPx2dv16fuQ0i9X+aNXnapbb0MdZ+WEnbFU2x6ev7YvqG+xCm6djP-ktdyQlDl9t4w7YSi1RVYMJ2wDlCVTXW+5tR5c65yydU+o6Z+k6pa57lq5b6npn6Xqlrn+Wrl-qBmfpBqVueJZu6LcUY6uNEmJO+bHfh8I1pFmnCevkbKcJ28nZbhO2m7O9JmwvZ-tN2H7ODpqwg5wdNmFVffOT1oRtagV7suXeXc+qS+oDrQmnlujUEt1aoldL9GuJQS0xPE0sMIt4bB-+0asTe5j-0HdgIXGaSpxS0mkq6ZSSblOJmsF-w1saYgoN3OzRvcxpLlOeHoHykMjGIQ-4gwGcMweoZnCItvZDzQWkaSbgFEJkuL4EFj2dgKY8+rUGoCeQJYmfBQy6J5BLAViuLecEMtkmKmXCmW2fwIIslZiwE8Q9lzB7eflI3FASQb5VfOgbcyYFpxREagSErSiM15gxoMVyGYWSbEBVFaRR3BuWAkAfPK5gQ0KYggSRvr9UqBtffnIeYwkrLt5uJcS37IUbc5ymv7mIPKS+ctEdSCzBd2+ACTB9Ny+u6bsjIUmYUT1F1CtdcUHkOjZ99xqwzATos8XBMONMCGBHMs7PW5W0vhBXm1T3KWX0SBLmLgvfHc3zCuofZqWiqsAiMRZYnbb1jQVLQbYVWCTqPq4L7PjuLxLJ9dR3A56JEIy5gBdCJYjd5VkpCsQsRC3XPHafT-3Wf29aCrs=

[Held]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I was able to reproduce it. I think on my last experiment I was playing a higher note where the phase lined up again with the delay coincidentally.

[Held]

For anyone who finds this and wants to use the custom modulator without delay, that's possible too.

Here's a render of a saw wave. One comes from an Oscillator module and the other comes from a Set module modulated by the oscillator via a GenCMod module.

msf_custommodgen_no_delay.png

As you can see, the samples line up perfectly.

The restriction is that you can only modulate modules that come after the GenCMod module in the signal path. In other words, they have to be below the red line in the following screenshot.

msf_gencustommod_no_delay.png

And if you want a "perfect" wave as your modulation source, all you have to do is disable "Allow antialiasing" in the Oscillator module.

What I haven't been able to figure out is how to use audio rate modulators to do frequency modulation directly on the Oscillator module. When I try to modulate the semitones, the base frequency moves around.

Is it possible to do frequency modulation directly on an oscillator module and keep the base frequency steady?