Intel Raptor Lake 13th Generation Core CPUs

[donkey tugger]

...plus there are now of course the new non-X chips from AMD in that list;

https://www.kitguru.net/components/luke ... iew/all/1/

...and 65w Tdp on these too.
Ok let's pretend it doesn't matter....

..and that may factor into your decision, as I previously stated. My point, very narrowly, was that in terms of pure performance the argument cannot be made that the apple CPUs now are superior, as some were insistent upon.

I'll leave you lads to discuss these ancillary matters now at your leisure. Got some music to do on my i7-3740qm craptop, with turbo boost turned off, not going above 70% on the FL cpu meter.

you should get a telephone exchange, i rarely hit 2%

I prefer music.

[vurt]

rude!

[donkey tugger]

You walked into it lad.

[vurt]

i guess i expected better from you of all people. commie.

[donkey tugger]

i guess i expected better from you of all people. commie.

Better from me? How much wild love wood have you had?

[Jac459]

...plus there are now of course the new non-X chips from AMD in that list;

https://www.kitguru.net/components/luke ... iew/all/1/

...and 65w Tdp on these too.
Ok let's pretend it doesn't matter....

..and that may factor into your decision, as I previously stated. My point, very narrowly, was that in terms of pure performance the argument cannot be made that the apple CPUs now are superior, as some were insistent upon.

I'll leave you lads to discuss these ancillary matters now at your leisure. Got some music to do on my i7-3740qm craptop, with turbo boost turned off, not going above 70% on the FL cpu meter.

Ok now we agree!
Have fun doing music!

[BONES]

But it isn't actually true that Windows laptop always offer the choice of running full speed on battery. In particular the gaming laptops, they rarely do just because the battery isn't powerful enough...

Absolute f**king bollocks. You can set up a power plan for any Windows machine that will run everything at full power on battery. It takes all of two minutes and I have never in my life read anything about any laptop battery being unable to supply enough power for that. Even if it was once true, it would absolutely not be the case today. Where gaming laptops have4 had problems is with thermals, which in about the 8th or 9th gen processors would prevent some CPUs from running at full power. But, again, that was a long time ago and doesn't hold true today.

Right, like you're going to stick a 13th Gen Core i9 13900K desktop processor in a laptop.

Most gaming laptops use desktop processors. My Dell G7 certainly did.

The FACT is that M2 MacBook Pros are better than any shitty PC laptop, hands down.

I couldn't agree more. The thing is, "shitty PC laptops" aren't the only ones available. You can buy one for less than the price of an iPad but nobody would expect it to perform like a Dell Precision mobile workstation or one of HP's Z Series laptops.

Everything from design, port selection, display quality, keyboard quality, battery life, trackpad responsiveness, power connectivity (i.e., MagSafe chargers that disconnect if you accidentally trip over your power cable and which don't require you to use one of your USB Type-C or Thunderbolt 4 ports for charging,) webcam, AND real world performance.

If you believe a word of that, you are much more stupid than I could ever have believed. Honestly, the only person I have ever known who had to get a laptop screen replaced was a neighbour of mine with a two year old 17" MacBook Pro. It cost her a fortune for a new one. For years MacBooks offered just one port, or two when they dropped Magsafe for a second USB-C port. It's only since Jonny Ive quit that some semblance of sanity has been restored. Witness also the universally pilloried "butterfly" key action that was so bad even Apple couldn't sell it to their customers.

The only PC laptops worth owning are the Dell XPS models.

XPS are consumer products, Dell has whole ranges of mobile workstations and gaming laptops that are superior to any XPS, whilst also offering better value. So if you want to point to someone who is woefully uninformed, go find a mirror.

And that's because they're the most Mac-like.

If you mean they attract the same style-over-substance customers, you're probably right.

Asus laptops are almost all horrible unless you're a man-child gamer.

So it's about who you are, is it, nothing to do with the device itself? Unsurprising from a Mac (l)user. Having owned XPS machines and Asus machines (and laptops from Acer, Microsoft, Lenovo, Samsung and Sony), I think I am in a slightly better position to make judgements about who makes the best laptops. That only one in 15 have been XPS models and my last four have all been from Asus should tell you all you need to know.

I just did a quick search for "best laptops 2023." Guess which ones came in first and second place? The M2 MacBook Air and the M2 MacBook Pro.

Right, nobody has ever known any journalist to be as obsessive about Apple as any true Applyte. But, even then, the MB Pros are damned with faint praise, according to Bing's AI's summary, the M2 MB Pro is nothing more than "a solid choice for most people who want reliable everyday performance, long battery life, and a sleek design." Honestly, are any of those thing a priority for anyone doing music production? Reliability, sure, but it's not like Apple has anything like a monopoly on that. Beyond that, if you are prioritising long battery life and sleek design, and/or you are happy with "everyday" performance, chances are you're making very poor choices. Surely what you are after for production work is something that reads a bit more like "It beat everything, delivering the best raw processor performance you can buy right now regardless of heat, power, or noise", and that's a Techradar review of an MSI gaming laptop.

[BONES]

Almost every reviewer comparing an OLED screen PC laptop with a MacBook Pro prefers the Mac's "Liquid Retina XDR" display. Nearly 100%.

Really? I couldn't find even one. Here's what the article you made a very selective quote from really had to say - "the advantages of OLED add up to superior contrast and depth... Mini-LED still noticeably lags the contrast performance of OLED because it can’t light pixels individually. So you didn't even manage to grab the salient point from the article.

Techradar said this - "Imagine the whole (OLED) screen entirely black, save for a single pixel out of eight million in pure, bright white – because that’s totally doable on an OLED. On a Mini LED set, it’s not even close: in a 4K panel with around 3,000 lighting zones, each backlight zone would actually drive around 2,700 pixels...
... precision lighting for very detailed objects still won’t be possible with Mini LED. At least not with any Mini LED implementation that has so far been revealed. And that means Mini LED’s HDR performance will be compromised. As we’ll see, peak brightness won’t be a problem for Mini LED, but entirely eradicated artefacts like bright halos around dark objects won’t be possible either."

ARS Technica said - "Mini LED backlight can lead to contrast gains that many people would find just slightly worse than OLED...
...Mini LED is two steps below OLED in terms of contrast-boosting image quality."

Finally, from Digital Trends - "In terms of picture quality, OLED TVs still beat LED TVs, even though the latter technology has seen many improvements of late (reference to miniLED). OLED is also lighter and thinner, uses less energy, offers the best viewing angle by far, and, though still a little more expensive, has come down in price considerably. OLED is the superior TV technology today."

[Ex Machina]

Almost every reviewer comparing an OLED screen PC laptop with a MacBook Pro prefers the Mac's "Liquid Retina XDR" display. Nearly 100%.

Really? I couldn't find even one. Here's what the article you made a very selective quote from really had to say - "the advantages of OLED add up to superior contrast and depth... Mini-LED still noticeably lags the contrast performance of OLED because it can’t light pixels individually. So you didn't even manage to grab the salient point from the article.

Techradar said this - "Imagine the whole (OLED) screen entirely black, save for a single pixel out of eight million in pure, bright white – because that’s totally doable on an OLED. On a Mini LED set, it’s not even close: in a 4K panel with around 3,000 lighting zones, each backlight zone would actually drive around 2,700 pixels...
... precision lighting for very detailed objects still won’t be possible with Mini LED. At least not with any Mini LED implementation that has so far been revealed. And that means Mini LED’s HDR performance will be compromised. As we’ll see, peak brightness won’t be a problem for Mini LED, but entirely eradicated artefacts like bright halos around dark objects won’t be possible either."

ARS Technica said - "Mini LED backlight can lead to contrast gains that many people would find just slightly worse than OLED...
...Mini LED is two steps below OLED in terms of contrast-boosting image quality."

Finally, from Digital Trends - "In terms of picture quality, OLED TVs still beat LED TVs, even though the latter technology has seen many improvements of late (reference to miniLED). OLED is also lighter and thinner, uses less energy, offers the best viewing angle by far, and, though still a little more expensive, has come down in price considerably. OLED is the superior TV technology today."

Good God, you are so personally invested in this that I'm honestly concerned about your mental health. I mean the unbridled rage is absolutely palpable. Normal human beings don't behave this way. You're obviously a smart guy. On some level you must realize that there is a whole world of joy waiting for you beyond KVR pissing contests.

[Jac459]

But it isn't actually true that Windows laptop always offer the choice of running full speed on battery. In particular the gaming laptops, they rarely do just because the battery isn't powerful enough...

Absolute f**king bollocks. You can set up a power plan for any Windows machine that will run everything at full power on battery. It takes all of two minutes and I have never in my life read anything about any laptop battery being unable to supply enough power for that.
....

I generally don't use Google for fact checking, but as you seems so sure about yourself, I think you need a reality check...

After about 15 seconds of googling. First page is for Asus, ROG, 2022.
So recent computer, famous brand, famous model:

From Asus website : "Finally, note that Turbo mode may not be available when your computer is on battery power, or when it's plugged in with a USB-C power adapter. In order to ensure Turbo mode does its job, your machine needs the full power of its included adapter plugged into the wall."

https://rog.asus.com/articles/guides/ar ... 20triangle.

[BONES]

Key word is "may not", which is just arse-covering because Intel still includes the ability to throttle their CPUs if they get too hot. It's a safety precaution that, in all likelyhood, will not kick in. The MSI review I quoted from didn't experience it, for example, but noted that it came pretty close to the thermal limits Intel has built in.

[Jac459]

Key word is "may not", which is just arse-covering because Intel still includes the ability to throttle their CPUs if they get too hot. It's a safety precaution that, in all likelyhood, will not kick in. The MSI review I quoted from didn't experience it, for example, but noted that it came pretty close to the thermal limits Intel has built in.

All this discussion let me think that it would be nice to have a youtube channel with proper DAW benchmarks for different kind of computers and in particular laptops. It would really help us to chose.

For example, your experience seems to be excellente with your windows laptop when mine was terrible because of overheating.
It certainly means that computers can be very differents . Apple ones seems to be reasonably good (And my experience is actually excellent with it), but there is maybe even better options in the PC world. The problem is how to know wh8ch models? I don't want to do again the same mistake I did with my Razer and pay 4kUSD for a laptop I will despise after 1 year.

[Pictus]

I do not follow laptop/notebooks, but the last time I checked the
best(sturdy) models were from
https://www.sagernotebook.com/home.php or https://eurocom.com/ec/main%28%29ec

Anyway, I would check reviews:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Reviews.55.0.html
https://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebook.htm
https://www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-reviews/
https://laptopmedia.com/category/reviews/

BTW, laptop/notebooks usually come full of bloatware, nothing better than a clean
Windows installation and some tweaks, but they may not be good for the battery.
viewtopic.php?p=8667750#p8667750

[BONES]

For example, your experience seems to be excellente with your windows laptop when mine was terrible because of overheating.

You just have to be objective and do your homework. I must have read/watched 20 reviews of my new laptop, in detail, before I decided that's the one I'd buy. And I don't assume that just because my last Dell or Asus or whatever computer was good that buying from the same brand again will necessarily guarantee it will also be good. I look at all the brands with a useful device for my needs, every time. Once I've found a good one, I'll then wait for a bargain to pop up.

I don't want to do again the same mistake I did with my Razer and pay 4kUSD for a laptop I will despise after 1 year.

I never looked very closely at Razer because they were very expensive and every review had some concerning negatives. Not necessarily show-stoppers but things that just made me a bit wary.

That said, I'm not sure how I will go with the new one, which arrives today (ordered in January). I've taken a punt that I'll be able to put up with the high-res screen (scaling) but if doesn't work out, I can always sell it and I won't lose much, if any, money on it. OTOH, if it does work out, I can see myself keeping it for a long time as the Core i7 is going to exceed my needs by a considerable margin, so I (hopefully) won't feel the need to upgrade again for a long time.

[Jac459]

[
You just have to be objective and do your homework.

I dont think you can find more objective than me on that particular . You hate Apple. I don't.
I hate/ like all the same. So basically I don't give a shit about being on windows, macos or linux... they all have their weakness and strengths.... And I dont really have learning curves to go to a system or another.

The "homework" is a more complex problem.
I have trust issue and i dont know good testing sites. My razer was supposed to be great. And some parts of it was..

What computer did you buy finally?

My next buy will be in 2-3 years anyway...