KVR Audio

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:02 am

You can add a USB Hub , I've been doing it for years. From there connect a mouse , audio Interface, keyboard controller and keep your Ipad charging at the same. People are releasing entire projects on the Ipad and some prefer to work that way. It may not meet your exacting standards but some of us suffer though it somehow and actually get stuff done.

BONES wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:20 am And they have how many USB ports? Nobody in their right mind is going to build a studio around an iPad.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:08 pm

I've never thought there was any shortage of idiots in the world.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:25 pm

There you go again Bones, charmed I am sure.

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:08 pm I've never thought there was any shortage of idiots in the world.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:30 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:16 am Right, because every manufacturer of USB I/O devices recommends that you use them with a dock for best performance. Again, you are building a studio, you are not going to kludge it up like that. Seriously, punch-in recording is the last thing I'd expect in a portable solution.

Horses for courses, I personally wouldn't built a studio around a laptop either and need a full sized mixer, but I appreciate other people have other needs- space, portability etc...whatever works and a lot of people, have iPads for other reasons, so the portable 'studio' just becomes a secondary bonus.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:56 pm

- deleted accidental double post -

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:57 pm

There are several apps unique to the Ipad that make having it available in the studio a lot of fun and as you say people have Ipads for other reasons. I like that I can make noise with it on the go using just the touch screen and then if I want to integrate it I can attach an interface and record my modular rig and sequence with it. Such a cool device with an incredible software library for not a lot of money (the apps) . I also develop custom control template using TouchOSC and control some of my devices wirelessly through low latency CME bluetooth midi jacks. A modern Ipad is just a powerful mobile computer with a touchscreen, an excellent software library and great battery life. The music doesn't care what you make it with. Not a difficult concept really.

SLiC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:30 pm
BONES wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:16 am Right, because every manufacturer of USB I/O devices recommends that you use them with a dock for best performance. Again, you are building a studio, you are not going to kludge it up like that. Seriously, punch-in recording is the last thing I'd expect in a portable solution.
Horses for courses, I personally wouldn't built a studio around a laptop either and need a full sized mixer, but I appreciate other people have other needs- space, portability etc...whatever works and a lot of people, have iPads for other reasons, so the portable 'studio' just becomes a secondary bonus.

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:38 pm

Punch in recording on mobile devices has been a thing since the cassette based PortaStudio (Porta as in portable for a certain crusty 50 + year old) . We used a pedal input back then. Now you just specify a start and end time and the digital battery powered recorders take care of it for you, no pedal needed. We are going back at least 40 or more years. This shouldn't be news.

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:49 pm

When considering the whole “studio” debate, I’m reminded of my humble attempt at a project studio I built in the 90s. I had the newest equipment (19” CRTs and all

). I had lots of outboard equipment. I spent over $20k U.S. dollars just for the equipment alone. It was never much, but it worked and was the best I could afford. These days, most everything I used before can now be run in a laptop—synths effects everything—at at much higher qualities. Most things these days (aside from vocals) are done entirely in the box. Huge studio spaces are no longer needed. The very definition of what a studio really is has changed. Who am I to define the word, “studio” for everyone else?

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:57 pm

Exactly, A studio can be a dinner tray with a laptop on it, an ipad in your lap, a room full of external processors powered by a 13th gen Intel or anything else that gets the music flowing.

audiojunkie wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:49 pm Who am I to define the word, “studio” for everyone else?

Scotty · Post by **Scotty** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:57 pm

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:11 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:16 am Right, because every manufacturer of USB I/O devices recommends that you use them with a dock for best performance.

With thunderbolt/USB 4 none of that concern really applies. Every manufacturer of anything ever will use it as an excuse if something goes wrong, but I haven't had my audio interface plugged directly into the laptop in years. It makes absolutely no difference.

Again, you are building a studio, you are not going to kludge it up like that. Seriously, punch-in recording is the last thing I'd expect in a portable solution.

Apple would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater if they made the iPad version a 1:1 clone of the macOS version. It definitely needs file compatibility but it just makes good business sense to hold back functionality, to encourage people to upgrade to get a better experience. It should be more like Studio One Artist - fully compatible but not full-featured. Otherwise you risk losing customers for the macOS version, and with it sales of Mac computers.

Apple famously will canibalize their own profits on a related product to make profit on the new product. iPads already have taken sales away from Macbooks it literally was their fastest selling product ever when it came out, and it's a "gateway drug" only slightly, a huge portion of people are fine with just an iPad. This is not an issue to them.

There is nothing kludge about using an iPad for a studio, it's vary akin to you using the lower versions of Studio One, more than 95% of the features are there, and it's streamlined in some ways. Your argument made sense ten years ago when these things had underpowered chips and lighting cables for connections in them, but now it's TB4 and Apple Silicon M2's. They're essentially the same thing as Surfacer Pros, but with better chips.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:14 am

SLiC wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:30 pmHorses for courses... the portable 'studio' just becomes a secondary bonus.

Which proves my point about it not needing punch-in/out. Thank you.

machinesworking wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:11 pmWith thunderbolt/USB 4 none of that concern really applies.

Not if you are happy to spend hundreds of dollars on a Thunderbolt dock/hub, which will require a power supply to function. A lot easier, cheaper and more elegant for a portable solution if the ports are already there on the device, don't you think? Remember, the context here is the need for punch-in/out. I am not making a general criticism because I actually think having a full DAW on an iPad is pretty cool.

There is nothing kludge about using an iPad for a studio, it's vary akin to you using the lower versions of Studio One, more than 95% of the features are there, and it's streamlined in some ways.

You're cherry-picking and taking things out of context again. It's not the software that makes it a kludge, it's the lack of connectivity. Apple don't want you to abandon your Macs, they want to up-sell you to a more expensive iPad. That's been the whole marketing philosophy for iPad from the beginning. On the PC side, you can have your cake and eat it, too. My Asus ROG Flow Z13 is just like an iPad Pro, except it's also very competitive with an MB Pro because it has all the best feature of both of those devices - it's light, it's portable, it offers a brilliant touch experience but I don't have to buy anything twice - one device and one suite of software that does it all. Apple have a vested interest in keeping the two things separate so that's what they'll do, for as long as people like you allow them to get away with it.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:55 am

BONES wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 1:14 am
machinesworking wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:11 pmWith thunderbolt/USB 4 none of that concern really applies.
Not if you are happy to spend hundreds of dollars on a Thunderbolt dock/hub, which will require a power supply to function. A lot easier, cheaper and more elegant for a portable solution if the ports are already there on the device, don't you think? Remember, the context here is the need for punch-in/out. I am not making a general criticism because I actually think having a full DAW on an iPad is pretty cool.

No I agree with you that it's sort of a PITA To buy connections but I'm currently using a laptop as the main studio advice, the extra peripherals VS being able to unplug and take it with me on road trips makes up for that to me VS a desktop. The other elephant, I've got a shit ton of connections in my studio, 16 port USB3 hub, TB2 and TB4 hub as well as a Pluggable designed to add USB3 video support for the underpowered GPU on the Air here. [edit: the point is no matter if I had a desktop with a ton of connections, I would still be buying more hubs]

There is nothing kludge about using an iPad for a studio, it's vary akin to you using the lower versions of Studio One, more than 95% of the features are there, and it's streamlined in some ways.
You're cherry-picking and taking things out of context again. It's not the software that makes it a kludge, it's the lack of connectivity. Apple don't want you to abandon your Macs, they want to up-sell you to a more expensive iPad. That's been the whole marketing philosophy for iPad from the beginning. On the PC side, you can have your cake and eat it, too. My Asus ROG Flow Z13 is just like an iPad Pro, except it's also very competitive with an MB Pro because it has all the best feature of both of those devices - it's light, it's portable, it offers a brilliant touch experience but I don't have to buy anything twice - one device and one suite of software that does it all. Apple have a vested interest in keeping the two things separate so that's what they'll do, for as long as people like you allow them to get away with it.

OK I was waiting for your "selling point", it's entirely possible to want different things, and IMO Apple have been right unfortunately about this, 90% or more of Windows users don't care about touch support, the fact that MS do not control the market for devices that run their touch enabled OS means that touch support is a wide ranging mess of potential, i.e. it works great if you spend the money and or time investigating which laptops have great support for it, but it works like ass on most laptops and applications. That is a problem, it means most people aren't and maybe never will adopt to touch in MS Windows.

Compare that to iPads and it's just night and day, people adopted to an OS designed for touch like nothing Apple ever sold. Fastest selling product they ever released. This isn't just laziness or kool aid etc. it's that the whole thing is designed with touch in mind. I personally hate that Apple don't have touch support for their laptops and do not agree that it's best because of zombie arms etc. I'm not the market for this, but it's obvious that there is one. Like I think I've mentioned in this thread earlier though, I believe there's going to a merge moment in the future, when Mac OS and iPad OS are the same. They might still sell separate devices, but the end game I believe is one OS for both devices.

Also didn't you have a Zenbook Duo two years ago? what happened to that?

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:30 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:57 pmI like that I can make noise with it on the go using just the touch screen and then if I want to integrate it I can attach an interface and record my modular rig and sequence with it. Such a cool device with an incredible software library for not a lot of money (the apps).

The software would want to be cheap because an iPad Pro sure as hell isn't. I was staggered to discover, when I priced one up yesterday, that to match the spec on my Z13 2-in-1 - 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM, plus keyboard case and stylus - I would have to spend literally twice as much - Au$3300 for an iPad Pro vs Au$1680 for the Z13. That leaves me Au$1620 to spend on software before I'm out of pocket. I reckon it would take me 4 or 5 years to blow that much on music software.

Of course, the reality is that I don't have to spend one cent on software because all the software I already own runs as well on the Z13 as it does on any other Windows PC, be it a laptop, desktop or whatever. It's an illusion that iPad software is cheap because the fact you have to pay twice is nothing but a rip-off.

A modern Ipad is just an expensive but flawed mobile computer with a touchscreen, an excellent software library and great battery life.

There, I fixed that up for you. Let me ask you this, if iPad is so good, do you still have a laptop? Assuming you do, why?

revvy · Post by **revvy** » Tue Jun 06, 2023 6:42 am

Logic Pro for iPad Announced! (subscription)