⚠ ⚠ Reason 12.6 - No perpetual offline-licence mode anymore! ⚠ ⚠

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Jac459 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:32 am I am not very much into conspiracy theory. I am part of the stupid people who think earth is round, we really went on the moon, elvis presley is really dead, etc....
Conspiracy mind is a kind of mental imbalance... doesn't matter if such stuff is ocassionally accurate cause the way it takes over peoples mental space until they cannot think of anything else is a crippling dysfunction.

I know quite a few people who have fallen into that stuff over the past decade and in every single case their daily life is worse off.

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Trancit wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:16 pm
Jac459 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:32 am
Trancit wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:05 am You are living in a dream world...

These laws are nothing but fantasy... they are there to protect them but not you!
I see the world you are living in... I will stay in mine if you don't mind lol...

I am not very much into conspiracy theory. I am part of the stupid people who think earth is round, we really went on the moon, elvis presley is really dead, etc....
What does the Amazon story has to do with conspiracy theories???

This is proven fact...went through many main stream media as well...

Or do you just want to play the momentary common game that everything you don´t like to hear are right wing extremists, conspiracy theorists, corona and holocausts deniers, racists...
Did I miss one of the narratives???
To answer in a longer manner:

I think you react to people without reading totally what they said and then after you are surprised that they mock you...

I never said that there was no example of corporate doing wrong. I mentioned myself the diesel gate or Goldman Sachs (who did things f**king more serious than playing with your data). I could also have talked about Apple artificially slowing down their old phones or Samsung advertising their new camera phone with pictures taken with a DLSR...
It DOES exist.
But
Meta has been fined 1.3 Billions for user data related topics, Alphabet 4.31Billions before, banks billions also.
It DOES exist too. It is not all black or white. There are regulations and huge some of money are paid.

As I said before, we live in a complex and nuanced world. Not in a world where "all laws are there to protect them".

With this vision of the world that is mine (and I understand that it is not yours, let's call it a day, TGIF !) I find it totally unreasonable to think that Reason Studios is actually doing this yearly check to steal data from users.
I am not saying it isn't a bit annoying, I am not saying that I am happy about it. I am just saying that it is almost certainly not done with any other intension than protecting themselves from piracy and therefore, we should accept it without calling names and trying to burn wishes...

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pdxindy wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:20 pm Conspiracy mind is a kind of mental imbalance... doesn't matter if such stuff is ocassionally accurate cause the way it takes over peoples mental space until they cannot think of anything else is a crippling dysfunction.

I know quite a few people who have fallen into that stuff over the past decade and in every single case their daily life is worse off.
I agree with you in the sense that most of the people who are victim of that are in fact kind of "away" from the world (because secluded, not working, no friend, no opportunity to interact) and then start to imagine a lot of things based on very little pieces of information gathered on internet/neighbours/news papers, .... This is this kind of extrapolation which is normally a normal reasoning process but become here harmful....

(for the record, I am not targeting or implying that anybody in this forum does that, it is just a general remark).

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Of course, if this deal goes Subscription I will dump it in a 1/128 or a faster note!
But why anyone would be concerned if there is not even a hint to that end…

And, btw, data collection? Give me a brake!
They know already all there is to know about you and you still alive :hihi:

Edit:
And I can’t stand Fiat money either!
I rather use those Alfa Romeo :love:
MuLab-Reaper of course :D

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dlandis wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 2:29 am
midi_transmission wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:36 am I have not followed every post here but I think you miss the point Jac459.

Data collecting is only a little part. I don't think it's a problem for audio companies as well.

But the other side is the dependence on the good will of a company. Financially but also in terms of availability. I want to keep my tools available and for a long time. These goals are potentially jeopardized by exactly this kind of business conduct.

It's not a business relation on a par like it used to be.
This is the note from the Reason site, re: Long-term Off-line Authorization. It was quoted by the OP earlier in the thread:

(BOQ)

Authorizing a computer for long-term off-line use

In addition, if you have an Annual Reason+ subscription or own a standard (perpetual) Reason 12 license, you can authorize your computer for long-term offline use. This can be useful if you are travelling or working in a studio without internet access, etc. The long-term authorization allows for staying off-line on the authorized computer for one (1) year. If you are a Reason+ subscriber you are limited by the subscription end date, though. In most situations, authorizing a computer for long-term use is not necessary, though.

(EOQ)

I'm not sure which part of this description gives you fear for your use of Reason; could you point it out? (And, please, if it's something else entirely, please feel free to convey those details.) With all due respect, from what I'm reading, your concerns are clearly strongly felt, but rather vague in the formulation of adequate cause.

I bring this up because, if it's fear of Reason going under behind your comment, I'll possibly be able to put your mind at ease due to the fact that in the few cases that something similar to this this have happened to me, one of two things has happened. In the first case, the companies not supporting a product anymore made arrangements for the product owners to retain rights to their licenses for perpetuity regardless of whatever type of copy protection was in use before the decision to stop supporting the software. Something like this happened when Apple bought Alchemy from Camel Audio. All valid license holders received a notice far in advance of the sale so that they could retain Alchemy for their computers in a manner so that they could (with specific and clear directions from Camel) reinstall the VST and other data on any new computers that they might desire in the future. In the second case (usually very small companies,) the owners stop supporting and manufacturing the software, but often do in conjunction with going out of business. The software continues to work in exactly the same manner on the original machine and very often the owner offers a final distribution to enable the user to continue using/reinstalling the software without issue. This second scenario is reminiscent of a situation that happened several years ago with a unique sounding VST named Enzyme by Humanoid Sound Systems. I happen to own Enzyme and have installed it on a new computer since the demise of Humanoid. I do imagine that at some point (with an OS change probably,) it may stop working, but all is fine now.

It should be noted as well, that Reason considers the off-line licensing an option for a minority of users, and, of course, it costs nothing at all to the user. The rub is that a majority of Reason users probably still haven't noticed any change in the way they use Reason and likely never will. Perhaps a fair question here: if the OP hadn't set this thread in motion, would you have known any better about this perceived issue? If not, should this "change" really give you agita or even minor concern? Again, as Jac459 notes, there are rather stringent laws governing these contractual dealings in the EU. It is not likely that Reason is going to go out of its way to break those laws.
You have to contact activation servers once a year. You can't use keep using it independently. That's a quite big restriction for a product you bought.

Would you accept that for you car?

The issue is a bigger one and not just this very case. Companies, especially mainly business driven ones without an idealistic product vision, try to shape their offer to their advantage as far as customers allow it. And this boundary will be pushed again and again in small steps.

The recent events around Waves are a good example. Luckily people complained enough.

There is nothing selfless in offering offline activation. It's a basic feature.

The more people are accepting it and come up with (false) understanding about these things the more the world will shift in that direction with disadvantages for consumers.

I think more often than not decent people have a blind spot in this regard because they are not aware of how aggressive business strategies are planed behind the doors.

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the rise of the roombas

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midi_transmission wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:45 pm ...
You have to contact activation servers once a year. You can't use keep using it independently. That's a quite big restriction for a product you bought.

Would you accept that for you car?
....
Does your car get fixed for free if a bug appear?
If the roads change format, does your car get upgraded ( like M1, VST3 format access)?
When you buy a new car, can you just update it, without having to resell it ?
Does your car suddenly have an upgrade proposition that will add a new seat, a new pair of lights or a bigger trunk for free ?

It is meaningless to compare software (ie: intellectual property) with material stuff. You have advantages and disadvantages for both.
...I think more often than not decent people have a blind spot in this regard because they are not aware of how aggressive business strategies are planed behind the doors.
I think people are not as stupid as you think and are in fact very well aware of business strategies of companies. They are just more mature and see it with more nuance than you.
I know it is hard to accept that companies like Reason Studios try to make money and pay their employees decently but I think you need to get used to it. Reason Studios has been subject to immense piracy in the past and I find it quite expected that they try to defend themselves...

It is true that not all DAW require regular online check. I know Bitwig doesn't... I just tried to type Bitwig in a torrent search engine... the V4.4 (the latest stable) poped immediately... Cracked... Reason is nowhere to be found (except the very old v5)...

Is it really such an issue that RS try to stop piracy against their product ?

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Don't make it too complicated folks, please. Fact is, that you can not perpetual use Reason anymore - you need internet once a year and this activation server. Doesn't matter if you are online alle day or never again. The thing is, you buy a product licence but you receive an annual-only product that needs continious activation. So it's some kind (some very special kind) of a subscription model to me. Some guys like me don't like it if you can not buy a perpetual licence anymore, so I/we will not support this. Others do. But do not complain if the next step of the company is that you have to log in twice a year, for example. They want to see your "papers" once a year now, otherwise you can't use your musical instruments! They make you dependent a bit in my opnion!

Just keep this in mind, because they did not make it that clear to the users. I just noticed it by accident and wanted to inform people with the thread to think about it.

Have a nice weekend. Cheers 🥂 🥂 🥂
Last edited by LaLivre on Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LaLivre wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:49 pm Have a nice weekend. Cheers 🥂 🥂 🥂
Agreed with this part my friend ! TGIF !

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Jac459 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:05 pm
midi_transmission wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:45 pm ...
You have to contact activation servers once a year. You can't use keep using it independently. That's a quite big restriction for a product you bought.

Would you accept that for you car?
....
Does your car get fixed for free if a bug appear?
If the roads change format, does your car get upgraded ( like M1, VST3 format access)?
When you buy a new car, can you just update it, without having to resell it ?
Does your car suddenly have an upgrade proposition that will add a new seat, a new pair of lights or a bigger trunk for free ?

It is meaningless to compare software (ie: intellectual property) with material stuff. You have advantages and disadvantages for both.
...I think more often than not decent people have a blind spot in this regard because they are not aware of how aggressive business strategies are planed behind the doors.
I think people are not as stupid as you think and are in fact very well aware of business strategies of companies. They are just more mature and see it with more nuance than you.
I know it is hard to accept that companies like Reason Studios try to make money and pay their employees decently but I think you need to get used to it. Reason Studios has been subject to immense piracy in the past and I find it quite expected that they try to defend themselves...

It is true that not all DAW require regular online check. I know Bitwig doesn't... I just tried to type Bitwig in a torrent search engine... the V4.4 (the latest stable) poped immediately... Cracked... Reason is nowhere to be found (except the very old v5)...

Is it really such an issue that RS try to stop piracy against their product ?
Well it is not only Bitwig, Try Roland Cloud that uses a 30 day online Re-Activation and be amazed of the result.
Btw. Reason 12.6 is also cracked so you are blind if you can't find it by doing a simple search on google which i just did to see ;)

These Online/RE-Authorization Copy schemes does nothing else than annoy and taking what we bought as a Ransom where we have to regulary phone home to tell that we are still interested in using what we have bought.

Online Scams (Sorry Schemes), Does not belong in the music Industry at all and is so Anti Consumer as it can get.

Would you be happy if you where a graphic designer and had to Subscribe or Do regular online Checks to use certain colors in your Paint App?

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D-Fusion wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:55 pm Well it is not only Bitwig, Try Roland Cloud that uses a 30 day online Re-Activation and be amazed of the result.
Btw. Reason 12.6 is also cracked so you are blind if you can't find it by doing a simple search on google which i just did to see ;)

These Online/RE-Authorization Copy schemes does nothing else than annoy and taking what we bought as a Ransom where we have to regulary phone home to tell that we are still interested in using what we have bought.

Online Scams (Sorry Schemes), Does not belong in the music Industry at all and is so Anti Consumer as it can get.

Would you be happy if you where a graphic designer and had to Subscribe or Do regular online Checks to use certain colors in your Paint App?
Happy to see that you are a better hacker than I am :-).
Apart from that, I don't feel you bring any new argument to the discussion...
You are adding another analogy to the table when the car was already done... What is the point ?
I guess we don't need to convince each others and readers of this thread will probably have made their own mind already, one way or another...

By the way, I need to leave, got to return my guitar, violin and piano... Bought them for perpetual usage and turns out I have to tune them from time to time.... f**kers !!!

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Jac459 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:05 pm
D-Fusion wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:55 pm Well it is not only Bitwig, Try Roland Cloud that uses a 30 day online Re-Activation and be amazed of the result.
Btw. Reason 12.6 is also cracked so you are blind if you can't find it by doing a simple search on google which i just did to see ;)

These Online/RE-Authorization Copy schemes does nothing else than annoy and taking what we bought as a Ransom where we have to regulary phone home to tell that we are still interested in using what we have bought.

Online Scams (Sorry Schemes), Does not belong in the music Industry at all and is so Anti Consumer as it can get.

Would you be happy if you where a graphic designer and had to Subscribe or Do regular online Checks to use certain colors in your Paint App?
Happy to see that you are a better hacker than I am :-).
Apart from that, I don't feel you bring any new argument to the discussion...
You are adding another analogy to the table when the car was already done... What is the point ?
I guess we don't need to convince each others and readers of this thread will probably have made their own mind already, one way or another...

By the way, I need to leave, got to return my guitar, violin and piano... Bought them for perpetual usage and turns out I have to tune them from time to time.... f**kers !!!
I might sound grumpy in my reply but i am not so nothing against you :)
I Just get extremely frustated as i see more and more what i call Anti Consumer behavior that is creeping into the Computer Music Industry.

1 Year before Re-Activating is better than the other option of 30.Days but still not a safe bet if something goes wrong with the Company which i have experienced Many times since 2000 from other Companies ;)

Yeah :hihi: You go and tell them that you demand Perfectly pitched Strings for your Money :lol:

You Can go around that Problem by Renting a Studio session when you want to use those instruments instead of owning them and they will be perfectly tuned everytime.

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Jac459 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:05 pmBy the way, I need to leave, got to return my guitar, violin and piano... Bought them for perpetual usage and turns out I have to tune them from time to time.... f**kers !!!
You should had bought a cracked version :dog:
MuLab-Reaper of course :D

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D-Fusion wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 4:55 pmWould you be happy if you were a graphic designer and had to Subscribe or Do regular online Checks to use certain colors in your Paint App?
26 million on Adobe Creative Cloud customers can't be wrong :hihi:
Image

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liquidsound wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:34 pm
Jac459 wrote: Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:05 pmBy the way, I need to leave, got to return my guitar, violin and piano... Bought them for perpetual usage and turns out I have to tune them from time to time.... f**kers !!!
You should had bought a cracked version :dog:
My guitar is actually really cracked :-(. And I keep buying VSTs instead of fixing it... :dog:

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