(solved) - I am mediocre at mixing/mastering, what is my best friend, Izotope or Fabfilter?

[Jac459]

I'm studying music production at the moment (just finished sound design term, now about to start mixing) and the general advice is: Fabfilter excellent, but your stock ones are probably enough. I have Mike Senior's book too, it's really good.

I did have the iZotope suite but I've been selling them off, mainly because nobody on my course uses them (so for knowledge sharing it's not so good) and I just don't like the aesthetics of the GUI. For a newbie like me, the FF ones are so clear, colourful, welcoming - I'm a visual thinker and they work well for me.

If you are looking to train your ear, have you tried the Sound on Sound podcasts? Sometimes Mike is on there too. They give examples.

Whaou I didn't know these book was such a reference... I feel I lived in a cave haha. I will definitely get it.

And yes, I fully agree on FabFilter... That's the whole point... When my ears fail me, the visual feedback helps...

I will also look at sound on sound...

[machinesworking]

I have too many mastering plug ins, and to be quite honest the iZotope suite is great, in fact great for all the reasons you mentioned. The AI guesses have to be tweaked but wouldn't you expect that? Tonal Balance Control is a total game changer here. I love Fabfilter like everyone does, but you're still required IMO to have years of experience to get great results reliably from their plug ins, i.e. you are again IMO more likely to get good results with the iZotope Suite than Fabfilter if you haven't spent years actively listening to professionally mixed recordings finessing the details of the audio spectrum for final release. << Basically without malice most of us can't put in the hours to be anywhere near as good as a real mastering engineer and it doesn't matter if we're using the same tools, getting a good master out of the couple dozen songs you might write in a year isn't easy without a trail of tears and regret from previous attempts. I would argue that Fabfilter and DMG audio make "better" plug ins than iZotope if you were a professional mastering engineer getting paid to put the finishing touches on Autechre's latest release, but as a composer trying to write and release songs it's going to be much easier to get something palatable out of iZotope for all the reasons you mentioned.

On more blab, I see and hear no UX or audible difference from Ozone and Fabfilter, IMO it's mostly a sense of prosumer VS pro that you get from the AI in Ozone. Tonal Balance Control really lets you know how far out a mix can get. Most of us are over 30, so most of us have high end hearing loss, and things like hi hats for instance even in the digital world can be much much louder than the average release in your mix because flatly we're not hearing that well above 15khz. Same applies with an untreated room or one that cuts or boosts low end and makes the mixes not translate etc. Essentially, iZotope get a bad rap out of people because they tried to solve a problem that exists because most of the buying audience is made up of composers and musicians not audio engineers and mastering technicians. Last caveat, I also think (like any sane person) that iZotope upgrade policies and rabid promotional discounts that don't seem to actually take in what you own are idiotic, but it doesn't take away from their AI giving you at least a starting point and Tonal Balance Control preventing you from making amateur mistakes. Don't knock what developers did because of foul marketing.

[Jac459]

...

Thanks mate for the very interesting perspective. And I have a tendency to agree to everything you said.

I am now trying to improve my monitoring (I use headphones) instead of over-investing in tools...

[Samiver]

I would also recommend Mike seniors book.

Can I ask what your studio/listening environment is? I say this as my mixing/mastering is still not great but I have to mix in headphones and getting something like realphones helped me a lot. I found my masters were better and translated better on other systems.

Not saying you mix on headphones but wondered if your monitoring could be affecting your mixing and mastering.

As for the Fabfilter stuff I use it a lot. Pro q3 especially sidechained to other instruments to see clashing frequencies for dynamic ducking, saturn 2 is great for dialling in on certain frequencies, pro mb I use a lot especially on the low end.

You touch a very good point actually. I do mix and master on headphone too. I have a Focal Elegia linked to a Astel&Kern DAC.
I am actually quite curious about something like realphones. I was quite impressed by the review on VSX, not sure if you read about it and what you think about it...
Unfortunately realphones doesn't support the Elegia... It support cheaper and more expansive focal but not these ones...

For Pro Q3, I like it a lot definitely, but then Bitwig is just unbeatable for side chaining. On top of clashing frequencies, you also really have a control on the attack and release of the side chaining, it is really surgical... I still use Pro Q3 but not for this part...

I don't have Pro MB, what do you use it for (obviously multi band compression, but more specifically) ?

Thanks.

Wow them focals look great. I only have sennheiser hd25(from my old dj days) and some dt 880 pros.

I make electronic dance music so use the pro mb on the low end (bit of gain and reacting/ducking to the kick), I use it as a de-esser or to tame high frequency resonant rich synth patches, ducking frequencies from other conflicting audio, or sometimes for a bit of expansion and compression on a full mix. A lot of the time it is simply just compressing or expanding the frequencies I want and leaving the rest alone.

[Jac459]

I would also recommend Mike seniors book.

Can I ask what your studio/listening environment is? I say this as my mixing/mastering is still not great but I have to mix in headphones and getting something like realphones helped me a lot. I found my masters were better and translated better on other systems.

Not saying you mix on headphones but wondered if your monitoring could be affecting your mixing and mastering.

As for the Fabfilter stuff I use it a lot. Pro q3 especially sidechained to other instruments to see clashing frequencies for dynamic ducking, saturn 2 is great for dialling in on certain frequencies, pro mb I use a lot especially on the low end.

You touch a very good point actually. I do mix and master on headphone too. I have a Focal Elegia linked to a Astel&Kern DAC.
I am actually quite curious about something like realphones. I was quite impressed by the review on VSX, not sure if you read about it and what you think about it...
Unfortunately realphones doesn't support the Elegia... It support cheaper and more expansive focal but not these ones...

For Pro Q3, I like it a lot definitely, but then Bitwig is just unbeatable for side chaining. On top of clashing frequencies, you also really have a control on the attack and release of the side chaining, it is really surgical... I still use Pro Q3 but not for this part...

I don't have Pro MB, what do you use it for (obviously multi band compression, but more specifically) ?

Thanks.

Wow them focals look great. I only have sennheiser hd25(from my old dj days) and some dt 880 pros.

I make electronic dance music so use the pro mb on the low end (bit of gain and reacting/ducking to the kick), I use it as a de-esser or to tame high frequency resonant rich synth patches, ducking frequencies from other conflicting audio, or sometimes for a bit of expansion and compression on a full mix. A lot of the time it is simply just compressing or expanding the frequencies I want and leaving the rest alone.

Thanks a lot for the explanations! On my side, I am still unsure of when to use pro Q3 or use the multiband of ozone (I don't have pro mb). Pro Q3 also have a way to excite or tame frequencies dynamically (as you probably know better than me). To be honest often the differences are so small that I feel like a cook hesitating between hadding 523 or 524 grains of salt in a soup... That's why I feel my hear (or brain) is the weak point....

[Samiver]

[/quote]
Thanks a lot for the explanations! On my side, I am still unsure of when to use pro Q3 or use the multiband of ozone (I don't have pro mb). Pro Q3 also have a way to excite or tame frequencies dynamically (as you probably know better than me). To be honest often the differences are so small that I feel like a cook hesitating between hadding 523 or 524 grains of salt in a soup... That's why I feel my hear (or brain) is the weak point....
[/quote]

Well to be honest there is some overlap between them when it coming to competing frequencies and yes proq3 does it just as well. I get what you mean with the salt thing as I do not really know what is right and just try things based on issues I hear.

what I tend to find is if I cannot get it right at master I have usually messed up somewhere in the mix.

[Jac459]

Well to be honest there is some overlap between them when it coming to competing frequencies and yes proq3 does it just as well. I get what you mean with the salt thing as I do not really know what is right and just try things based on issues I hear.

what I tend to find is if I cannot get it right at master I have usually messed up somewhere in the mix.

Thanks, this perspective is very useful for me.

[andymcbain]

I would also recommend Mike seniors book.

Can I ask what your studio/listening environment is? I say this as my mixing/mastering is still not great but I have to mix in headphones and getting something like realphones helped me a lot. I found my masters were better and translated better on other systems.

Not saying you mix on headphones but wondered if your monitoring could be affecting your mixing and mastering.

As for the Fabfilter stuff I use it a lot. Pro q3 especially sidechained to other instruments to see clashing frequencies for dynamic ducking, saturn 2 is great for dialling in on certain frequencies, pro mb I use a lot especially on the low end.

You touch a very good point actually. I do mix and master on headphone too. I have a Focal Elegia linked to a Astel&Kern DAC.
I am actually quite curious about something like realphones. I was quite impressed by the review on VSX, not sure if you read about it and what you think about it...
Unfortunately realphones doesn't support the Elegia... It support cheaper and more expansive focal but not these ones...

For Pro Q3, I like it a lot definitely, but then Bitwig is just unbeatable for side chaining. On top of clashing frequencies, you also really have a control on the attack and release of the side chaining, it is really surgical... I still use Pro Q3 but not for this part...

I don't have Pro MB, what do you use it for (obviously multi band compression, but more specifically) ?

Thanks.

I would focus on your monitoring - be that headphones or speakers/room first and foremost - and then mix referencing with something like Metric A/B, if you don't do so already You've probably got all the mixing plugins that you need to improve already.

The Focal Elegia seem to have a bit of strange frequency response (source - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... one.27977/) so maybe demo SoundID Reference by Sonarworks to correct the curve, and see if that helps you get a better result.

I'm a big fan of Slate VSX and it's working for me - especially with mixing low end in my less than ideal room. But I'm still using it in addition to the monitoring I already have, rather than a replacement for it. Hope that helps!

[Jac459]

I would focus on your monitoring - be that headphones or speakers/room first and foremost - and then mix referencing with something like Metric A/B, if you don't do so already You've probably got all the mixing plugins that you need to improve already.

The Focal Elegia seem to have a bit of strange frequency response (source - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... one.27977/) so maybe demo SoundID Reference by Sonarworks to correct the curve, and see if that helps you get a better result.

I'm a big fan of Slate VSX and it's working for me - especially with mixing low end in my less than ideal room. But I'm still using it in addition to the monitoring I already have, rather than a replacement for it. Hope that helps!

Thanks mate. Actually the VSX seems damn tempting but I really like the Elegia comfort and I would like to use them.
From what I see, both dSoniq room emulation and VSX have very good reviews.... I will go for dSoniq...

[Jac459]

I finally bought the Morphit and Realphones.
I started to create the EQ as part of the shared frequency response but it was a bit difficult and I really like the idea that morphit can simulate other headphones (I tried the 1000xm5 and the emulation is really good).
Realphones is a bit more complex as I don't know exactly how to make the mix sound good through the various rooms...

I will now spend time reading the various Info given here, Mixby Mike book and some tuto on Realphones.

Thanks all very much for the help! It was really useful for me...