KVR Audio

Timfonie · Post by **Timfonie** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:41 am

And why is mixing on headphones not recommended even when they have nice flat frequency responses?

Headphones sound different from monitors speakers, but why? (apart from room reflections)

When listening to monitor speakers the sound is filtered. The signal from the left speaker has to travel around the skull to reach the right ear and vice versa. Also the shape of our ear shells filter the sound which help us determine the direction of the sound.

Now think of a vst plug-in that models our head and ear shells to create a "monitor speaker"-effect. In fact the software to produce convincing 3D-sound based on skull and ear shell modelling has been on the market for several years now. Virtual Ear software is incorporated in many soundcards. With a few parameters the algorithm can be adapted to one's personal ear shell shape (so no worries if you have jug-ears ).

Now use this (kind of) software to put the stereo signal somewhere in a virtual 3D-room. Place the 'virtual monitor speakers' where they are in your own room. Add an impulse response of your room, put on a pair of the very best headphones and voila! Alternatively you might use an impulse response of a room and monitors which are acoustically better than yours.

The technology is there but not in vst format. It's time for a new plug-in!

Tim

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:48 am

Indeed!

I read somewhere that a boost at around 7kHz fools the ear to believe the sound comes from above. Maybe tha could be of use to you until someone (Betabugs perhaps?) develops a 3D VSTi.

/SparkySpark

xanda123 · Post by **xanda123** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:40 pm

It's just mainly because most headphones don't have a flat frequency response, and secondly the stereo field is very different when listening with headphones so it's hard to get things right, but to be honest it's good to use both so you can get the best sound on both systems.

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:13 pm

the biggest problem I've had mixing with headphones is that short sharp transients -- like drums seem to activate a self-limiting feature of hearing -- i.e. the brain tends not to hear how loud transients really are.
but over time and trials of burning CDs and trying them out on a few speaker systems, I think it's possible to learn to adjust/compensate and make a decent mix with headphones.
i'm rarely surprised now by how my mixes sound on speaker systems, and that wasn't initially the case.

i hope to get some better flat response headphones for Xmas, as I know my current pair are a little hot in the mid-high end. A separate room for a studio with monitor setup isn't a good fit for me.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:28 pm

Amp modelling is not currently 100% effective. Room modelling is not currently 100% effective. Binaural HRT's are not 100% effective.

Why should we use expensive (in terms of CPU cycles) plugins to remove the accuracy of our mix.

Karen-K · Post by **Karen-K** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:34 pm

There's also the problem of "binaural effect", system that amplify too much the stereo response.You'll have impression to ear more reverb, panning are more effective etc...
IMO headphones are good to check the levels of each instruments,but you must have more than one pair to verify....
-----EDIT------
didn't seen whyterabbyt post...sorry

cptgone · Post by **cptgone** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:59 pm

I had a weird problem lately.

I mixed my newest tune ("Boot" - it's on my site) on headphones. Sounded sweet on my HD525MkIIs.

But when I listened to a CD-R copy of it on my HiFi speakers, the low end was far too muddy.

The kind and knowledgeable people at KvR told me this could be "standing waves" in my room.

Sounds logical.

But what I still don't get is:
why don't I have this problem with other CDs?

(In the end, I decreased the release of a low percussive sample but now it sounds like *** on my headphones and it's still muddy on my HiFi speakers)

Josmoker · Post by **Josmoker** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:06 pm

I also suspect that at least in bass-heavy music the part that you 'hear' with your body is also quite important - with headphones you miss out on that. And I'm not only talking about the bowel-shaking subbasses but more generally the lower part of the frequency spectrum.
Does anybody know whether this really is important at all?

Cheers, Jo

Klemperer · Post by **Klemperer** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:06 pm

I have serious trouble with this obvious problem, because my neighbour (well I thought I'd come to a bigger town like Hamburg and would not see people like that

) even cries out because of "the sound of keyboards" - played with headphones, you know... That's no fun.

It's a big problem. There was a german KEYS-magazine-issue that dealt with that. Maybe on their website (never was there) you could find something in Engl. about that??

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:52 am

Josmoker wrote:I also suspect that at least in bass-heavy music the part that you 'hear' with your body is also quite important - with headphones you miss out on that. And I'm not only talking about the bowel-shaking subbasses but more generally the lower part of the frequency spectrum.
Does anybody know whether this really is important at all?

Cheers, Jo

Yes, you're right of course. For example, very low frequencies (in the 20Hz range) can be sent to make people feel uneasy. (Nothing for the Christmas shopping centres!

)

But it's possible to dance with headphones too! I remember when I got a pair of cordless headphones and I just turned up the music and danced a lot, as it was so fun always hearing the music coming to the correct ear, even when I made twirls! Unfortunately mixing was impossible, as there was a built-in limiter of some kind that screwed all mixing levels up.

/SparkySpark

Why are monitors better than headphones?