Did Bitwig Hire a New Marketing Person?

[BobDog]

BW do listen though, if you send them an email about something that you don't like or think needs changing they make a note of this.

If enough people contact them about the same thing the priority of that will change, we saw it with the MPE channel issue, enough people complained so they changed it.

I think getting involved in the main beta phases is also very useful, it gives us the chance to nudge the new bits, the new browser is an example of this.

Saying this I also think it is a good idea for a company to have someone that has a couple of hours a day to deal with forums, this used to be normal but is now vanishing not just for BW but for a lot of companies.

On the ModAudio forum they had a great guy who was constantly helping to sort things out, helping out, getting involved. They have just got rid of him, a real shame.

[nowiamone]

If we draw a parrallel with Bitwig, first they both create and sell the product to us, second they have an upgrade plan. As there is an upgrade plan, people generally feel they have a say on the roadmap in general because they paid for a future services (honestly if it was me, I would never do that lol).
In my own view, the upgrade plan doesn't commit ANYTHING to us and we should act as as adult and buy the upgrade plan only either if :
- the upgrade plan provide us immediately the value we are paying for (like a new version already available and that we want)
- we want to support the developers by giving them a bit of money in advance of the service
- we like to gamble on the future and we are ready to loose.

If people buy the upgrade plan because they feel they will own the developers this way and will decide the roadmap, I think it is their own problem and they will for sure be disappointed.

I agree with the last thing. But remember: the other extreme would be a total disconnect and having no say at all. Which i m sure noone could possibly think is a good thing. Otherwise we would now have to buy not only a spectral suite extension, but i guess already several other extensions, which arent part of the upgrade plan.

A small influence from customers to company must always be present, as it is helping both parties!

Determining which direction Bitwig goes to, everything lies 100% in their hands. My personal wish for a bit more transparency about the roadmap doesnt even imply that they would have to give up any powers about where they're going. They would instead be a bit more open about it - so people can make an better informed choice about when and if to renew the upgrade plan.
That would already be awesome.
Additionally, even the idea of letting users have a small say in where things go directly through an open roadmap wouldnt necessarily mean to give up the majority power over development. It could be 10% resources allocated to the customer roadmap, while 90% are still allocated to the "secret company agenda",

BW do listen though, if you send them an email about something that you don't like or think needs changing they make a note of this.

If enough people contact them about the same thing the priority of that will change, we saw it with the MPE channel issue, enough people complained so they changed it.

I think getting involved in the main beta phases is also very useful, it gives us the chance to nudge the new bits, the new browser is an example of this.

Saying this I also think it is a good idea for a company to have someone that has a couple of hours a day to deal with forums, this used to be normal but is now vanishing not just for BW but for a lot of companies.

On the ModAudio forum they had a great guy who was constantly helping to sort things out, helping out, getting involved. They have just got rid of him, a real shame.

Yes Bitwig is listening, and that's why i also want to stick around / support them.
The MSEGs were a wish by many people, and they have a small team, working hard to do them that favor Not sure how many asked about a new Browser, haha.
But:
It's just a little bit of a pity to not know even IF some fixes that i would need, will be implemented in the next year. Building complex livesets in DAWs, learning in depth, all this is a huge investment, which would feel better knowing some personal workflowkillers will get fixed. (=this is the point where it would be nice to not only hear a "we added your request to our internal list" but something like "we added your request to our internal list, but sadly you only have two additional upvotes for that wish right now, so it is on low priority, and might not get adressed within the next 2 years")
----
"It used to be normal", yes - and i ll keep on stating my opinion how awesome it would be to make it normal again.

[billcarroll]

People here seem to forget that Bitwig had a community manager here, and while being a lovely person he also probably still has PTSD from what was a very negative experience. A few donkeys bray loudly here, and most of those donkeys don't make music and they don't represent the entire Bitwig user base in any meaningful way.

Bitwig has wisely chosen to invest their energy where they believe it makes the most impact based on how they want to run their company.

[pdxindy]

Saying this I also think it is a good idea for a company to have someone that has a couple of hours a day to deal with forums, this used to be normal but is now vanishing not just for BW but for a lot of companies.

Forums have changed. Forums reflect the general state of the society. And in general, people feel powerless in the areas of their life that matter and so they try to claim some power in places that don't matter.

Btw, I'm so glad we were able to get Bitwig to add midi channel support! It made a huge difference for me

[pdxindy]

It's just a little bit of a pity to not know even IF some fixes that i would need, will be implemented in the next year. Building complex livesets in DAWs, learning in depth, all this is a huge investment, which would feel better knowing some personal workflowkillers will get fixed. (=this is the point where it would be nice to not only hear a "we added your request to our internal list" but something like "we added your request to our internal list, but sadly you only have two additional upvotes for that wish right now, so it is on low priority, and might not get adressed within the next 2 years")

And if they said they were going to do something and it didn't happen on the expected timeframe you would be there with your pitchfork stabbing them in anger.

It is far better for them to keep silent.

And it's also better for you if they keep silent.

[nowiamone]

It's just a little bit of a pity to not know even IF some fixes that i would need, will be implemented in the next year. Building complex livesets in DAWs, learning in depth, all this is a huge investment, which would feel better knowing some personal workflowkillers will get fixed. (=this is the point where it would be nice to not only hear a "we added your request to our internal list" but something like "we added your request to our internal list, but sadly you only have two additional upvotes for that wish right now, so it is on low priority, and might not get adressed within the next 2 years")

And if they said they were going to do something and it didn't happen on the expected timeframe you would be there with your pitchfork stabbing them in anger.

It is far better for them to keep silent.

And it's also better for you if they keep silent.

Nope. Sorry, but it would be kind of you not implying what reactions i "might" have, thanks.

Here's how i react to a timeline which takes longer than i expected:
I kindly ask when it might be finished, and then, since i m really happy i got an answer,
i said "fantastic". So, there you go. No anger, no pitchfork. Instead: Happy i got an answer.

discord 1.jpg

discord 2.jpg

People here seem to forget that Bitwig had a community manager here, and while being a lovely person he also probably still has PTSD from what was a very negative experience. A few donkeys bray loudly here, and most of those donkeys don't make music and they don't represent the entire Bitwig user base in any meaningful way.

The example above also further proves my point that a normal social interaction is possible online, without "PTSD". If anything would be so severe as to cause PTSD - the community-guidlines would have been surpassed by MILES, and the people responsible for the negativity would have been banned in a second. They would be gone.
But some people here seem to be of the opinion, that the KVR forum (or other forums) just are a toxic swamp, full of "donkeys" "Bad apples" etc... And that therefore also the good/experienced Bitwig users and musicians are better of, when there's just ZERO engagement from a moderator.
I tend to have a more positive world (forum) View, and trust in the skills of a moderator.
Especially since - as you can see in above example - there is a "parallel world", which completely contradicts all of your negative assumptions about user-moderator-company interaction.

[pdxindy]

I tend to have a more positive world (forum) View, and trust in the skills of a moderator.
Especially since - as you can see in above example - there is a "parallel world", which completely contradicts all of your negative assumptions about user-moderator-company interaction.

Excellent! Go propose to Bitwig that you will make a forum and moderate it and see if they will participate.

There may be a parallel world out there, but this is KVR. You haven't been here long enough to understand how KVR is.

[pdxindy]

And that therefore also the good/experienced Bitwig users and musicians are better of, when there's just ZERO engagement from a moderator.

It doesn't make any actual difference. For example, one company that is forthcoming on what they are doing and their timeline, said they expected a public beta of something in a few weeks and then they found some bug/issue that required them to refactor their framework and 6 months later was still nothing.

Likewise, Bitwig could tell you the feature you want will be there in the next year. Then in one year, they could say that due to unexpected circumstances, it is now unknown when they might add that feature.

That is just the way it goes. You cannot depend on possible future outcomes, only what is there now and it doesn't matter how sincere a company is. And whether you think you know or not, doesn't make something arrive even a day sooner.

Basically, what you want is some psychological assurance and a bit of stroking of your ego. Nothing wrong with those things... it just doesn't make any actual difference to logistical circumstances.

[Jac459]

I tend to have a more positive world (forum) View, and trust in the skills of a moderator.
Especially since - as you can see in above example - there is a "parallel world", which completely contradicts all of your negative assumptions about user-moderator-company interaction.

Excellent! Go propose to Bitwig that you will make a forum and moderate it and see if they will participate.

There may be a parallel world out there, but this is KVR. You haven't been here long enough to understand how KVR is.

I am agreeing with you...

And it is sad...

[Jac459]

People here seem to forget that Bitwig had a community manager here, and while being a lovely person he also probably still has PTSD from what was a very negative experience. A few donkeys bray loudly here, and most of those donkeys don't make music and they don't represent the entire Bitwig user base in any meaningful way.

Bitwig has wisely chosen to invest their energy where they believe it makes the most impact based on how they want to run their company.

I didn't forget, I didn't know .

Anyway looking at how U-He guys generally get insulted or VPS guys, it is not difficult to be sure that you are right...

[billcarroll]

It's just a little bit of a pity to not know even IF some fixes that i would need, will be implemented in the next year. Building complex livesets in DAWs, learning in depth, all this is a huge investment, which would feel better knowing some personal workflowkillers will get fixed. (=this is the point where it would be nice to not only hear a "we added your request to our internal list" but something like "we added your request to our internal list, but sadly you only have two additional upvotes for that wish right now, so it is on low priority, and might not get adressed within the next 2 years")

And if they said they were going to do something and it didn't happen on the expected timeframe you would be there with your pitchfork stabbing them in anger.

It is far better for them to keep silent.

And it's also better for you if they keep silent.

Nope. Sorry, but it would be kind of you not implying what reactions i "might" have, thanks.

Here's how i react to a timeline which takes longer than i expected:
I kindly ask when it might be finished, and then, since i m really happy i got an answer,
i said "fantastic". So, there you go. No anger, no pitchfork. Instead: Happy i got an answer.
discord 1.jpg
discord 2.jpg

People here seem to forget that Bitwig had a community manager here, and while being a lovely person he also probably still has PTSD from what was a very negative experience. A few donkeys bray loudly here, and most of those donkeys don't make music and they don't represent the entire Bitwig user base in any meaningful way.

The example above also further proves my point that a normal social interaction is possible online, without "PTSD". If anything would be so severe as to cause PTSD - the community-guidlines would have been surpassed by MILES, and the people responsible for the negativity would have been banned in a second. They would be gone.
But some people here seem to be of the opinion, that the KVR forum (or other forums) just are a toxic swamp, full of "donkeys" "Bad apples" etc... And that therefore also the good/experienced Bitwig users and musicians are better of, when there's just ZERO engagement from a moderator.
I tend to have a more positive world (forum) View, and trust in the skills of a moderator.
Especially since - as you can see in above example - there is a "parallel world", which completely contradicts all of your negative assumptions about user-moderator-company interaction.

This should be a part of your new book, "5 Reasons why i would love to make music, but still can't."

[nowiamone]

While waiting for the release of my book,
You can watch me making music in my other videos.

[liquidsound]

Getting PTSD from a forum…
That made my day man!

User are getting PTBD instead
“B as in Browser”

[Jac459]

Getting PTSD from a forum…
That made my day man!

User are getting PTBD instead
“B as in Browser”

This should be a part of your new book, "5 Reasons why i would love to make music, but still can't."

This one was great too...

Remind me to never disagree with billcarroll, he's on fire...

[nowiamone]

Yea it was a nice joke which made me laugh myself
Never forget making music!
But when it comes to disagreements, it is more fruitful and "on fire" to not only make jokes, but also adress the topic/arguments in a convincing manner which hasn't been done at all:)
But since all sides have made their opinions clear enough, with an exhausting amount of posts, it's truly a good time to end this at this point, and return to making music.