Blue Cat's PatchWork 2.66 Free Update

[JTBrownell1998]

I also would love a limit increase on macro parameters... ESPECIALLY for other Blue Cat plug-ins that can host components/VSTs, such as Late Replies and MB-7 Mixer, as those two I mentioned have a much bigger restriction on macro parameters than Patchwork. Because of that, I assume there is some kind of trade-off for allowing the assigned controls to expand indefinitely -- as an example, I know for a fact the 40 parameters limit has saved me from certain doom when I have selected "Map All Params" on a plug-in that had hundreds, if not thousands of blank/reserved parameters, because the plug-in creator didn't bother to clear them before release...

Still, as a power user who uses Patchwork for literally EVERY instrument patch (and insert effect!), I would really appreciate having the option to increase, or even remove the hard limit on macro parameters. Even if it's something I have to tweak in the KUIML script (I have yet to find a way to change this in any of the Patchwork xml's, though maybe I missed something..)

While I'm already reading my Christmas wish list, I want to add that I would REALLY love to have a default value editor for assigned controls, so when I press ALT+LMB the knob snaps to a pre-determined value that I've chosen for it. For example, let's say I have the knob from Blue Cat's Gain component mapped to a macro. Its range is from -40dB, to +40dB, with 0dB in the middle. When I ALT+LMB on it, I want it to snap to 0dB -- and that's what it does if I'm doing this on the knob itself. However, if I do this on a macro assigned to the knob it will snap to -40dB.

EDIT: here is a quick mockup that shows how this feature could possibly appear, if implemented:

blue cat patchwork - default init macro parameter value concept.png

Another thing that would be really nice for power users/patch creators is the ability to skin macros with a control besides a knob. For example, if a macro is assigned to a plug-in control with an on/off behavior, then I could change its macro from a knob to a button (like the ones in BC Remote Control). That way I could just click once, and it would toggle the macro between 0% and 100%

EDIT: here is another quick mockup, again just to show how it might appear if implemented. I took assets that already exist in Blue Cat's plug-ins and superimposed them into Patchwork. Obviously disregard the change of skin/colors; I broke the default skin while working on this one and haven't fixed it yet

blue cat patchwork - macro control style 1.png

blue cat patchwork - macro control style 2.png

[JTBrownell1998]

By the way, since this is an update announcement/post, I feel I should comment on that instead of just asking for new stuff again (I'll make a separate thread for my future suggestions).

The v2.66 Params Editor has already probably saved me dozens of hours of pain; I'm currently testing out hundreds of plugins while simultaneously building patches for them in Patchwork, and it has been an absolute breeze now that I can drag/drop and duplicate macros, as well as delete ones I no longer want from the middle of the list, rather than having to basically start over. Oh, and the hamburger menus are an interesting addition -- I haven't used either of them TOO much yet but still, I always appreciate the extra options.

Automatically turning off the learn parameter when the Editor is closed = another very welcome feature!

The ability to "Synchronize multiple MIDI controllers" ... I'm not sure I understand how this works but I'll have to experiment. I'm pretty sure I've had zero moments where I felt like Patchwork was missing a MIDI feature I wanted, though that's probably because Remote Control, Connector, and a bunch of 3rd party plugs I have already cover everything I've needed so far, MIDI-wise. Still any new MIDI capabilities or features get a fat +1 from me -- especially in this day and age where new plug-ins with MIDI cc/MIDI out are very rare. I'm guessing MIDI tools just don't sell as well

[BevvyB]

Still, as a power user who uses Patchwork for literally EVERY instrument patch (and insert effect!), I would really appreciate having the option to increase, or even remove the hard limit on macro parameters. Even if it's something I have to tweak in the KUIML script (I have yet to find a way to change this in any of the Patchwork xml's, though maybe I missed something..)

PS The amount of times I've got excited about a plugin and started to set my controllers up to work with it, only to find later down the line that several buttons, knobs and wotnots are not even accessible, seemingly randomly, as if the dev started mapping them to midi then got bored half way through or something.

PPS Unlike Blue Cat's stuff, which all works great

[JTBrownell1998]

PS The amount of times I've got excited about a plugin and started to set my controllers up to work with it, only to find later down the line that several buttons, knobs and wotnots are not even accessible, seemingly randomly, as if the dev started mapping them to midi then got bored half way through or something.

Oof, my Kiive plugins and *Kontakt libraries are all deeply offended... at least they have some automation though. Have you ever used Orchestal Tools' Sine Player? OT managed to incorporate their entire library shop into the plug-in itself, but letting users automate anything besides the Bypass button is just too much to ask

*To be fair to Kontakt, the one creating/scripting the library decides how many/few controls the user is allowed to automate. But would it kill NI to let me purge samples w/ automation? I.e. without opening Kontakt and finding the little drop down menu? We have the technology -_-

[Blue Cat Audio]

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments.

Regarding the number of controls, it cannot change over time, as changing the list of parameters of a plug-in is not properly supported in most hosts, so we have not even tried to implement it. Given this limitation, we had to choose a number, and since PatchWork is often used as a channel strip on every single track of huge projects, performance and lightweightness have been a priority for PatchWork, so havong thousands of additional parameters is not an option (plus it would be a nightmare to configure that many controls!).

That being said, do you really need that many parameters? Now that PatchWork supports macros, it may be useful to use only a few parameters at a time that control several plug-ins simultaneously... I doubt that hundreds of knobs displayed on the GUI helps the workflow... Maybe we'll add some more on the future (although it is not such an easy task if we want to keep backward compatibility, which is also a ajor priority for PatchWork, which has never broken compatibility with older sessions for 10 years).

Also if not all plug-ins are in use at the same time, it may be interesting to use several PatchWork presets and switch from one to another (instead of having ALL plug-ins loaded in the same session at the same time).

[Blue Cat Audio]

Switches and default values are indeed in the todo list (even though the default value requires a bit more changes than just adding GUI to select it).

[Blue Cat Audio]

By the way, since this is an update announcement/post, I feel I should comment on that instead of just asking for new stuff again (I'll make a separate thread for my future suggestions).

The v2.66 Params Editor has already probably saved me dozens of hours of pain; I'm currently testing out hundreds of plugins while simultaneously building patches for them in Patchwork, and it has been an absolute breeze now that I can drag/drop and duplicate macros, as well as delete ones I no longer want from the middle of the list, rather than having to basically start over. Oh, and the hamburger menus are an interesting addition -- I haven't used either of them TOO much yet but still, I always appreciate the extra options.

Automatically turning off the learn parameter when the Editor is closed = another very welcome feature!

The ability to "Synchronize multiple MIDI controllers" ... I'm not sure I understand how this works but I'll have to experiment. I'm pretty sure I've had zero moments where I felt like Patchwork was missing a MIDI feature I wanted, though that's probably because Remote Control, Connector, and a bunch of 3rd party plugs I have already cover everything I've needed so far, MIDI-wise. Still any new MIDI capabilities or features get a fat +1 from me -- especially in this day and age where new plug-ins with MIDI cc/MIDI out are very rare. I'm guessing MIDI tools just don't sell as well

Thanks! I'll probably do a video to show how great it is to have several MIDI controllers being kept in sync by PatchWork .

Regarding MIDI tools, I think it is more a matter of technical limitations. Apart from Audio Units, no plug-in formats lets you create MIDI-only plug-ins, so it is pretty painful to support (VST3 being the worse...), and in most cases using them in a DAW is not very intuitive, so it generates quite a bit of customer support too.

[Britishboxer]

Hi, thats a great question, my goal is to also use it as a plugin with logic or pro tools as a guitar rig and utilise a midi pedal board to turn on off effects (before the amp) and before the bus effects, im also wondering what limitations there are lol

I cant open it in logic, or it's taking way too long ( I forced quite after 3 mins) and I know its my default preset cause I saved that with the Softube Marshall suite and all.

Now im trying to rebuild the same set of plugs in logic but cant figure out why my parallels bus sounds so different, I understand that PW has the first and last row in series, so its important what order you put effects but im still confused about the parallel section,

Question 1 Alike Bevvy's question, will you guys expand external control support?
Question 2 Does each horizontal row of parallel plug work in series from 'left to right'?
Question 3 Are the parallel rows from left to right related to a single slot of the PRE section or the whole set as a series?
Question 4 am I building a guitar or vocal chain incorrectly if for example I put an amp sim in the pre section, should I be placing it in the parallel even though its my source and the pre section can be Pres, eqs, chorus, over drive etc?

Question 5 Does the parallel section work exactly the same way parallel channel strips work in Logic and Pro Tools?

[JTBrownell1998]

That being said, do you really need that many parameters? Now that PatchWork supports macros, it may be useful to use only a few parameters at a time that control several plug-ins simultaneously... I doubt that hundreds of knobs displayed on the GUI helps the workflow... Maybe we'll add some more on the future (although it is not such an easy task if we want to keep backward compatibility, which is also a ajor priority for PatchWork, which has never broken compatibility with older sessions for 10 years).

Personally, yes it does help my workflow, because since I map all a plug-ins parameters to Patchwork's Control 01 through Control 40, that means 90% of plug-ins I never need to open their GUI! I don't have to worry about plug-ins with too small (or too big!) a GUI, plugins with circular-only knob control, settings buried in menus (if they let me just change them w/ automation), laggy/buggy visual feedback plug-ins, and I could go on and on.

While I sure could use more than 40 controls for certain patches... 40 is plenty for most cases, and maintaining bck/fwd compatibility is very important to me as well, so I'm glad Blue Cat Audio also understands the importance of that. Personally, I'm more in need of a Control limit increase in MB-7 Mixer + Late Replies -- hopefully someday those can be brought up to 40 Controls like PW, w/out breaking compatibility

[JTBrownell1998]

Question 2 Does each horizontal row of parallel plug work in series from 'left to right'?
Question 3 Are the parallel rows from left to right related to a single slot of the PRE section or the whole set as a series?
Question 4 am I building a guitar or vocal chain incorrectly if for example I put an amp sim in the pre section, should I be placing it in the parallel even though its my source and the pre section can be Pres, eqs, chorus, over drive etc?

Question 5 Does the parallel section work exactly the same way parallel channel strips work in Logic and Pro Tools?

2: Yes they do. If you refer to the manual, I'm pretty sure there's a diagram that shows Patchwork's signal flow

3: whole set as a series. Think of Pre as its own insert chain. After the signal runs through everything in the Pre, then it goes to the Parallel chain(s) (unless you have Patchwork set to only 1 or 2 columns, and/or you have all the parallel chains turned off), then runs to the Post (unless you have Patchwork set to only 1 column)

4: Whether the amp is in the Pre/Parallel/post section will not change how it sounds tonally or anything like that. If you want the entire signal to be amped, then put it in the Pre. If you want to have a dry signal chain that you can mix into the amped signal, then put the amp on a parallel chain, and turn on another parallel chain which has no amp on it.

Tip: When you're using more than one parallel chain, be aware of the Sum/Average selector; if it's set to Average then it will basically smooth out the levels based on the average between all the signals. If it's set to Sum, you will get the true, un-level matched signal. In Sum you need to be careful bc loud sounds will stack on top of one another and can distort very quickly. If you're going to work in Sum mode, then start by setting all the chains' Gain Out to -6dB

[Britishboxer]

Question 2 Does each horizontal row of parallel plug work in series from 'left to right'?
Question 3 Are the parallel rows from left to right related to a single slot of the PRE section or the whole set as a series?
Question 4 am I building a guitar or vocal chain incorrectly if for example I put an amp sim in the pre section, should I be placing it in the parallel even though its my source and the pre section can be Pres, eqs, chorus, over drive etc?

Question 5 Does the parallel section work exactly the same way parallel channel strips work in Logic and Pro Tools?

2: Yes they do. If you refer to the manual, I'm pretty sure there's a diagram that shows Patchwork's signal flow

3: whole set as a series. Think of Pre as its own insert chain. After the signal runs through everything in the Pre, then it goes to the Parallel chain(s) (unless you have Patchwork set to only 1 or 2 columns, and/or you have all the parallel chains turned off), then runs to the Post (unless you have Patchwork set to only 1 column)

4: Whether the amp is in the Pre/Parallel/post section will not change how it sounds tonally or anything like that. If you want the entire signal to be amped, then put it in the Pre. If you want to have a dry signal chain that you can mix into the amped signal, then put the amp on a parallel chain, and turn on another parallel chain which has no amp on it.

Tip: When you're using more than one parallel chain, be aware of the Sum/Average selector; if it's set to Average then it will basically smooth out the levels based on the average between all the signals. If it's set to Sum, you will get the true, un-level matched signal. In Sum you need to be careful bc loud sounds will stack on top of one another and can distort very quickly. If you're going to work in Sum mode, then start by setting all the chains' Gain Out to -6dB

hi and thanks again, I was so busy the last week using patchwork to set up a guitar rig, when you say setting all the chains' Gain Out to -6dB, do you mean the plugins or the output gains, they seem to react strange, I put a delay in one row and I could not hear it very well, I actually had to turn it up...then when trying to rebuild the same set up in logic I could not get close, I dont understand but patchwork sounded way clearer, louder and over all better, maybe all the gains add up lol

[JTBrownell1998]

hi and thanks again, I was so busy the last week using patchwork to set up a guitar rig, when you say setting all the chains' Gain Out to -6dB, do you mean the plugins or the output gains, they seem to react strange, I put a delay in one row and I could not hear it very well, I actually had to turn it up...then when trying to rebuild the same set up in logic I could not get close, I dont understand but patchwork sounded way clearer, louder and over all better, maybe all the gains add up lol

Hey, maybe you already sorted this out yourself, but yes I mean the "gain knob" outputs of the parallel chains. If they are all set at 0dB and you have the parallel mode set to Sum (not Average) then if you have an audio signal running through Patchwork and start turning on parallel chains, it will likely give you a loud, distorted scare.. that's all. If you're not sure just leave the parallel mode set to "Average", but be aware that if you have say one chain you want to be a lot louder than the other, then you may want to switch to Sum mode, because Average is trying to balance out the 2+ parallel signals.

[monzelio]

Is it possible to add midi CC for the on/off switch of the slots in the parallel chains?
Many third part plug ins have not the bypass control so the on/off could act as a bypass in my midi remote control..

[Blue Cat Audio]

Is it possible to add midi CC for the on/off switch of the slots in the parallel chains?
Many third part plug ins have not the bypass control so the on/off could act as a bypass in my midi remote control..

Unfortunately no (for the moment). It has been done for our other plug-in hosts (Axiom, Late Replies...), but we have not (yet) found a way to add this capability without breaking compatibility with existing presets and sessions.

[JTBrownell1998]

Unfortunately no (for the moment). It has been done for our other plug-in hosts (Axiom, Late Replies...), but we have not (yet) found a way to add this capability without breaking compatibility with existing presets and sessions.

Patchwork v3? About the bypass; half the time I bypass a plug-in through its bypass parameter, Patchwork recognizes this and bypasses the cell itself. If a plug-in doesn't have an internal bypass, then you could always load the plug-in into another Patchwork, and bypass that Patchwork. This has always worked for me when certain plug-ins act up when being bypasses or oversampled -- I can just put the plug-in into a Patchwork and affect the Patchwork instead, and it works perfectly