Vital - Released

[El°HYM]

[vurt]

sesame street made it over here.

[Teksonik]

Rather than doing trick questions, I think the old Sesame Street "One of these things is not like the other"* tests would be better and more legitimate.

If someone says "I hear something at 12k to 20k" then they should be able to hear it (or hear that it's missing) in any A/B test.

We're not children so we shouldn't dumb things down to that level.

[mystran]

Not that I really care..... but.....Rather than doing trick questions, I think the old Sesame Street "One of these things is not like the other"* tests would be better and more legitimate.

The scientific version of this scheme is ABX testing: you give the test subject a pair of (randomized) reference samples A and B and they have to decide which one the test sample X matches. If the score is about 50% we can assume coin flip. If the score is much more than 50% we can assume perceptible difference. If the score is much less than 50% we can assume a perceptible different and a test subject that either has trouble reading instructions or is intentionally trolling.

[pdxindy]

man, that doesnt even make sense. why would ppl spend time saying its bad if its not bad? thats just a crazy logic right there. why do you not see the same people saying X synth is bad? its a silly little logic you have there.

golden ears? again, you mock people, that doesnt make sense either. you assume it means people dont know how to use it. if that were true youd see the exact same complaints on any synth wouldnt you? vital is literally one of the easiest synths to use.

With this topic, I was curious, so I did some testing using a spectrum analyzer. Vital along with 3 others synths and some basic waveforms. Not at all a definitive test and I didn't want to put a lot of time into this. My result... by the spectrum analyzer and by ear is that Vital has clean waveforms and looks nearly identical to the other synths even in the highest notes (once they are level matched). There is no visible evidence of aliasing or other artifacts.

There are a number of reasons someone might have heard Vital sounding unpleasant. I have no idea what some individual (who offered nothing but a general opinion) was doing.

In my tests I was not able to hear or see in the analyzer any issue as described.

[neverbeeninariot]

This may be the greatest video ever made.

[fisherKing]

always loved that song; didn't know that deftones had made a video for it

EDIT: ok, vital. i think some of the (too many) user presets i've downloaded for it have sonic issues, but that's on the programmer, not the synth. and something like SoundAuthor's sets shows how musical the plugin can be. any plugin can be overdriven, made ugly. it's our job to contain that... or make it moreso...

[liquidsound]

man, that doesnt even make sense. why would ppl spend time saying its bad if its not bad? thats just a crazy logic right there. why do you not see the same people saying X synth is bad? its a silly little logic you have there.

golden ears? again, you mock people, that doesnt make sense either. you assume it means people dont know how to use it. if that were true youd see the exact same complaints on any synth wouldnt you? vital is literally one of the easiest synths to use.

With this topic, I was curious, so I did some testing using a spectrum analyzer. Vital along with 3 others synths and some basic waveforms. Not at all a definitive test and I didn't want to put a lot of time into this. My result... by the spectrum analyzer and by ear is that Vital has clean waveforms and looks nearly identical to the other synths even in the highest notes (once they are level matched). There is no visible evidence of aliasing or other artifacts.

There are a number of reasons someone might have heard Vital sounding unpleasant. I have no idea what some individual (who offered nothing but a general opinion) was doing.

In my tests I was not able to hear or see in the analyzer any issue as described.

Beside that, I like to know if they can point out, in that 50 minute video of Sound Author, that wacky problem that seems to torture their brain

[elassi]

sesame street made it over here.

We enter the world as babies ... and we leave the world as babies (being fed by an elderly care nurse who's cleaning our mouths and asses).

That's why Sesame Street fits any age.

[LFO8]

Not that I really care..... but.....Rather than doing trick questions, I think the old Sesame Street "One of these things is not like the other"* tests would be better and more legitimate. And instead of playing each of the four recordings by hand, record each of the four tracks with the exact midi sequence. The user would then have to pick the correct one out of the four. If a particular synth has a particular characteristic that is undesirable, it should be easy to choose the odd one out of the four.

* For those who didn't grow up in the United States in the 70s, there is a children's show that shows four options, with 3 being of one type, and one being of another type. The children have to choose the one that is different out of the four. There is a song with it that starts with the words, "One of these things are not like the other".

I did a video for the same reason a while back and nobody could see to pick which one was Vital (and I even put it against Serum which, according to some has a vastly superior sound quality whatever that means)

Seems like my video sparked some discussion..

Allright then.. for the connoisseurs: Which one is Vital?

[El°HYM]

Just de_installed Vital, thanks for the hint.

[BBFG#]

I had uninstalled it awhile back as it was feeling a bit 'meh' at the time. After reading a few comments here, I decided to redownload and install the latest version. And while I can't say if or how it has improved from the version I originally had, I wonder what I missed then. Perhaps just the time to dig into it? It does have a 'flatter' character in comparison to some other things I use and that's not a good or bad thing, just a difference that I feel should make a place for it.

Every synth should have it's own character. But that character can be pleasing or not depending on the individual.

Again Vital is not my favorite synth but I purchased it in the early access period and have enjoyed it ever since.

However I don't know if I can in good conscience recommend anyone buying it at this time. The lack of interaction from Matt and the fact that 1.5.5 still has issues (you can follow them at the Vital forums which Matt seems to have ghosted...again) is disconcerting.

I've said since day one that Matt made a huge mistake in releasing a nearly un-crippled free version of Vital. It gave people very little incentive to purchase because all you get is more TTWT per day and supposedly more preset content. The subscription model was supposed to get even more content over time and priority service but I don't have any evidence that either of those things has happened.

So to sum up, great synth but has some bugs and a very uncertain future.

Quite valid considerations I will keep in mind now.

[audiojunkie]

Rather than doing trick questions, I think the old Sesame Street "One of these things is not like the other"* tests would be better and more legitimate.

If someone says "I hear something at 12k to 20k" then they should be able to hear it (or hear that it's missing) in any A/B test.

We're not children so we shouldn't dumb things down to that level.

Hehe!! The idea may have come from a kids show, but having to pick correct one among four is a better concept of proving a person can identify a particular synth then an A/B comparison where the person has a 50% chance of getting it right (or wrong) from a complete guess. It's hard to say that it was anything more than a guess regardless of which answer you choose with A/B comparisons.

[audiojunkie]

Not that I really care..... but.....Rather than doing trick questions, I think the old Sesame Street "One of these things is not like the other"* tests would be better and more legitimate.

The scientific version of this scheme is ABX testing: you give the test subject a pair of (randomized) reference samples A and B and they have to decide which one the test sample X matches. If the score is about 50% we can assume coin flip. If the score is much more than 50% we can assume perceptible difference. If the score is much less than 50% we can assume a perceptible different and a test subject that either has trouble reading instructions or is intentionally trolling.

Interesting! I had never heard the term before, but I just looked it up. I would be absolutely OK with tests like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test

An ABX test is a method of comparing two choices of sensory stimuli to identify detectable differences between them. A subject is presented with two known samples (sample A, the first reference, and sample B, the second reference) followed by one unknown sample X that is randomly selected from either A or B. The subject is then required to identify X as either A or B. If X cannot be identified reliably with a low p-value in a predetermined number of trials, then the null hypothesis cannot be rejected and it cannot be proven that there is a perceptible difference between A and B.

ABX tests can easily be performed as double-blind trials, eliminating any possible unconscious influence from the researcher or the test supervisor. Because samples A and B are provided just prior to sample X, the difference does not have to be discerned from assumption based on long-term memory or past experience. Thus, the ABX test answers whether or not, under the test circumstances, a perceptual difference can be found.

ABX tests are commonly used in evaluations of digital audio data compression methods; sample A is typically an uncompressed sample, and sample B is a compressed version of A. Audible compression artifacts that indicate a shortcoming in the compression algorithm can be identified with subsequent testing. ABX tests can also be used to compare the different degrees of fidelity loss between two different audio formats at a given bitrate.

ABX tests can be used to audition input, processing, and output components as well as cabling: virtually any audio product or prototype design.

[Masterofdisaster]

Well they are BOTH Vital anyways.

so you had to resort to tricks? you realise that the human brain works in mysterious ways. if you believe one is vital and the other is another synth, then thats what you believe. since one had to be another synth. that was just low tbh, and kinda proves my point. i guess if you had actually been genuine, it would have been too easy to identify vital, huh?