Filterscape 1.5.0 public preview 14785

[Urs]

We have a list of 20+ major features that we would like to see in Filterscape. Among these are LFO improvements, MIDI improvements, microtuning, NKS, PolyMod, external sidechains (and better envelope followers), pre/post EQ spectrum and much, much more.

However, we think the current status is a good start to revamp the product itself, keeping it a free update. It keeps it alive and maybe it will turn out to become viable to spend the time on an actual 2.0 with a good number of these features added.

Our main objective is to plough through our products which have a lot of legacy code. Once that's done, we'll see where things take us.

[perpetual3]

Thank you so much, Urs. Yes, it’s amazing as it stands now and if you don’t update it with those features I know that I’m more than satisfied. Appreciate the response because it does give me something to look forward to.

We have a list of 20+ major features that we would like to see in Filterscape. Among these are LFO improvements, MIDI improvements, microtuning, NKS, PolyMod, external sidechains (and better envelope followers), pre/post EQ spectrum and much, much more.

However, we think the current status is a good start to revamp the product itself, keeping it a free update. It keeps it alive and maybe it will turn out to become viable to spend the time on an actual 2.0 with a good number of these features added.

Our main objective is to plough through our products which have a lot of legacy code. Once that's done, we'll see where things take us.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

From a naming perspective, the new filters are listed differently between Filterscape FX and Filterscape VA. Why not use consistent names for all filters between the two products?

Filterscape FX
Legacy 2P
Linear 2P
Analogue 2P
Analogue 3P
Analogue 4P

Filterscape VA
LP I 12db
LP II
LP AM 2Pole
LP AM 3Pole
LP AM 4Pole

Are those the same filters? If yes, then I'd suggest standardizing the naming convention. Just something that says "this is the new one/these are legacy" and is identifiable as such between both products.

[pdxindy]

Now I'm curious about the note expression feature. This sounds really great, as I'm using Bitwig.

If Note expressions already give you per-note pitch, timbre, pressure then it's already very much what I'm expecting from MPE. But then, why wouldn't MPE support be possible? To me it sounds like there could be a generic Adapter that converts MPE mode MIDI to single channel MIDI with note expressions?

There's no need for an adapter cause it already works. If you are using Bitwig, then you are good to go!

My Linnstrument works well with F-VA (besides a bug with Timbre). It's even better than the other u-he synths cause you don't need to set PB amount for each preset. Pitch slides just work regardless of PB amount in the preset.

What you cannot do is use the Expressions modulator cause there is no PolyMod. But whatever pressure and timbre (when fixed) modulations you can set up in F-VA itself would work fine.

[simmo75]

Is there any chance the LFO sync could go to 32 bars please?

[Fannon]

There's no need for an adapter cause it already works. If you are using Bitwig, then you are good to go!

My Linnstrument works well with F-VA (besides a bug with Timbre). It's even better than the other u-he synths cause you don't need to set PB amount for each preset. Pitch slides just work regardless of PB amount in the preset.

What you cannot do is use the Expressions modulator cause there is no PolyMod. But whatever pressure and timbre (when fixed) modulations you can set up in F-VA itself would work fine.

Ok, that's interesting. Need to check this out how it actually behaves then
Does that mean that Bitwig converts the LinnStrument MPE input already into note expressions?

The voice management in FilterscapeVA dates back to Zebra 1, which 20 years ago was designed without the concept that mono and legato modes could be played polyphonic across channels. It did however support Polypressure/PolyAT. And Note Expression support In FilterscapeVA has more in common with PolyAT than with MPE.

The main issue is that the voice management does not make decisions based on MIDI channels. If a NoteOff comes in, it'll release the voice playing that note that was triggered the longest time ago, regardless of whether channels match or not.

Adding that is not a piece off cake, and unfortunately we can't simply transplant it from our other synths which support the feature.

Thanks for the reply! I probably didn't phrase it well. I wasn't asking for full MPE support. I was more wondering how support for note-expression doesn't already functionally provide what I want from MPE, but in a different way. And if that's the case, why we cannot just convert it.

From my understanding with NoteOff, this will only be a problem if the same note is played at the same time on a different channel? If there are no such overlaps, we should get all per-note expressions via note-expressions?

Note-expression only works with CLAP, right?

[Fannon]

Ok, very cool - note pitch and pressure indeed already works nicely in Bitwig.

2023-08-07 18_05_29-Bitwig Studio - New 1.png

@Urs: Would it be possible to offer Timbre (MPE or Note expression) as dedicated modulation source? That would feel much more natural than using CC74, which is also not labeled as such.

And I'm also having troubles getting timbre to work (tried it with setting Control B to CC 74, but no effect).

[Urs]

Ok... just quickly:

We map the CLAP NoteExpression "Brightness" to our Modulation Source "CTRL A", which for MPE we also recommend to map to CC#74.

This makes sense because we have a requirement for preset design (factory and soundsets) that these Modulation do something meaningful. If we introduced a new Modsource just for Timbre, there would be a lot of goodness lost.

Now, Timbre has two problems:

a) we currently have a bug (fixed here, I think) where CTRL A could "spill over" from one voice to others if used with Note Expression "Brightness" aka "Timbre" in BWS.

b) BWS conceptually has Timbre as a bipolar expression, but in CLAP "Brightness" is unipolar. Such that in BWS, somehow - and in my observation not fully predictably - Timbre results in a default Modulation of +50% for CTRL A even if in BWS it is at the zero-Marker. To get 0% of CTRL, one needs to set Timbre in BWS to -100%. This IMHO is an inconsistency in how BWS uses CLAP's Note Expression.

[pdxindy]

We map the CLAP NoteExpression "Brightness" to our Modulation Source "CTRL A", which for MPE we also recommend to map to CC#74.

Ahhh... so it does not matter what Control A is set to in preferences (by default it is CC#2 breath), it always works for Timbre. Got it...

[pdxindy]

And I'm also having troubles getting timbre to work (tried it with setting Control B to CC 74, but no effect).

(as I just understood from Urs comment and checked in F-VA) Timbre as Note Expression has nothing to do with what Control A and B are set to in preferences. Control A controls Timbre regardless of what it is set to in preferences (defaults to CC2)

[pdxindy]

Ok... just quickly:

We map the CLAP NoteExpression "Brightness" to our Modulation Source "CTRL A", which for MPE we also recommend to map to CC#74.

This makes sense because we have a requirement for preset design (factory and soundsets) that these Modulation do something meaningful. If we introduced a new Modsource just for Timbre, there would be a lot of goodness lost.

By default Control A is set to Breath (CC#2)

If I assign Control A to cutoff, then have a clip with notes with Timbre data and also have breath data, both of them affect cutoff at the same time.

If I want to use Control A for breath or expression pedal or whatever, it means I have to remember to turn off Timbre on my Linnstrument otherwise the timbre data will interfere.

It would be clearer and simpler to have a Timbre mod source, but I can keep Control A set to None in preferences and then it is in effect, a dedicated Timbre mod source.

[pdxindy]

I also notice with Timbre, if I wiggle my finger quickly in the Y axis, the resulting sound is grainy/steppy. Fast pressure sounds smooth.

[Fannon]

Ok... just quickly:

We map the CLAP NoteExpression "Brightness" to our Modulation Source "CTRL A", which for MPE we also recommend to map to CC#74.

This makes sense because we have a requirement for preset design (factory and soundsets) that these Modulation do something meaningful. If we introduced a new Modsource just for Timbre, there would be a lot of goodness lost.

Thanks, that really helped! I was missing the information that Brightness / Timbre is automatically assigned to Control A. I just tested that and it worked fine.

Looking forward for this to also become available for the other CLAP betas! Btw. - does this also imply that since Filterscape could get CLAP support, the same would be possible for Zebra Legacy? That would be great, as then the missing MPE is not really much of an issue anymore.

Regarding automatically mapping Brightness / Timbre to Control A (because it's usually already assigned): I get your argument, but I also see a problem here, at least with the LinnStrument. Not every MPE instrument has the same fine-control over timbre. With the LinnStrument, you only have very limited and coarse grained control over it. If now Control A has already been assigned in a way that it very drastically changes the sound, you might not be able to get a stable sound out of it. So if Control A is by default assigned to MPE timbre, I might be forced to undo or change the modulation amounts first in order to be able to really use the patch. Maybe it would be nice to assign Timbe to Control A or Control B with some control on range/scale.

[Fannon]

I also notice with Timbre, if I wiggle my finger quickly in the Y axis, the resulting sound is grainy/steppy. Fast pressure sounds smooth.

Maybe that's a problem related to Bitwig? When I look at the note expression timbre curve, it looks very rough and edgy. Maybe there's a setting on how many points are recorded or to smooth this out?

2023-08-07 20_34_27-Bitwig Studio - New 1.png

[pdxindy]

Maybe it would be nice to assign Timbe to Control A or Control B with some control on range/scale.

You do that by the amount of modulation depth in the synth.