Waveform 11 Pro Support?!?!?!?

[gguevara1]

Hello,

Does anyone know if Tracktion is even supporting Waveform 11 Pro anymore? I have sent several emails through their support website, and they have not even replied back (outside of an auto-reply message generated by a damn computer - ironic).

Is this because they are only supporting v12 now? Because if that's the case I will gladly pay the money to upgrade to v12 - and then demand they resolve my issue. Can someone please provide a customer support number..., that is actually VALID?

To summarize:
I was working on a project with no issue when I suddenly lost power in my area. My PC immediately and complete shut off (it did not crash). My APU did not kick in fast enough.

When I restarted Waveform again, it asked me if I wanted to open up the last temporary edit version or original edit version. I thought it made sense to open the last temporary edit version, thinking this would at least open the project from the last most recent "save." Maybe not the last version in that moment when the power loss happened, but at least something more recent. When the "last temporary edit version" opened, it opened with No Tracks – nothing. And when I try to recover a Backup file, it opens with No Tracks. I tried several backup files, and that all have the same results – No Tracks. I do not want to risk just clicking things and experimenting – and risk losing any chance at recovering the project. All my track/stemps were audio (.wav)

Can someone please provide a valid contact for these people. I have a very large social media following, and I'm a few clicks away from starting a pretty big Negative-PR campaign on them - for not even replying back.

Thank you in advance.

[Dark Lane]

I think you will find that most long term Waveform users like myself gave up on Tracktion support a long time ago. As you've experienced they rarely or ever reply and you are more likely to get a useful response from another user.

My view on how Tracktion work is that they are only interested in selling new products or versions of products. Their support is non-existant, their documentation is pathetic and they have no interest in fixing bugs in existing versions. Basically it's a Ponzi scheme where income from the latest release is pooled and funds the next product or release rather than supporting existing users.

It's a shame because Waveform is a great product and great value but the only way to use it without going crazy is to consider it 'as-is' and don't expect any help in understanding how to use it or fixing bugs. Luckily there are enough features that you should be able to use 80% of it and get great results. Just don't expect to get any help if you wish to use the other 20%.

[nowgad]

Hello

When I had this case, but only with version 12.1.., I couldn't do anything. And I just have to accept and forgive

Basically it's a Ponzi scheme where income from the latest release is pooled and funds the next product or release rather than supporting existing users.

Unfortunately, I fully support you.

[dysjoint]

the only way to use it without going crazy is to consider it 'as-is'

Yup, finding what works, per version, on your setup, with no user guide updates. Standard. But still entirely usable once you figure what works and workarounds

[pough]

It would be somewhat ironic if this is what takes TSC down (I say because the OP is threatening to cause a social media fuss) as there is almost certainly nothing that their support could do to resolve this problem. Their custom support is definitely sub-par, but corrupted files are corrupted files.

For anyone who plans to continue using Waveform here is what to do when you get the dreaded "temporary" dialog: immediately create your own backup of the original Edit. After that has been done, choose the temporary version. If the temporary version is borked, close Waveform and overwrite the Edit with your backup.

Once you make a choice in that dialog all other choices are forever lost to you unless you have made your own backup. Yes, a process more robust would be superior. But this is better than nothing, if it works out. And it normally does work out for basic software crashes. It's power failure events that are much more likely to be un-recoverable.

[pough]

There is a difference between "they have no interest in fixing bugs in existing versions" and "they haven't yet fixed the bugs that I care about." I don't get why there are 11 point versions after the release of 12.5 without any bug fixes. There's a lot to criticize. You don't need hyperbole.

[jabe]

Can someone please provide a valid contact for these people. I have a very large social media following, and I'm a few clicks away from starting a pretty big Negative-PR campaign on them - for not even replying back.

Thank you in advance.

I'd rather you didn't. Those of us that have been around for longer remember the approximately eight year period when then-owners Mackie left it to fester into abandonwaredom and it looked doomed to never be developed any further. The fact that it was rescued and gets occasional development from a staff of about three and has survived almost a dozen further new versions is viewed by some of us as bordering on miraculous. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the users on here are pretty much technical support for each other and we would appreciate not getting kicked in the teeth by disgruntled users trying to make a point. Perhaps in future back up your project folders before each session.

[gguevara1]

Perhaps in future back up your project folders before each session.

Hello,

Thanks for the reply. However, I did not lose the Project folder. It is still there, including the Backups folder that is automatically created by Waveform when you start a new project.

1- If Waveform creates its own backup files of the project (.waveformbackup) when you save or properly exit the project - why do you need to do a full manual HD backup just to backup a project? Each waveform backup file is dated and supposed to be separate from the prior date.

2- How would a power loss even corrupt these backup files in the first place? These files have already been generated, saved, and timestamped by Waveform. These files are just sitting there, archived and unused in a backup folder (until they are needed for "Restoration"). How and why would an instant power-loss cause these files to be corrupted?

3- I have restored one or two projects from these Waveform backup files in the past, with no problems. Why would it be a problem now? Why do none of these backup files fully restore the project to a prior version - so I can at least work with the project again (and redo my edits)?

Has anyone been able to recover from this issue? That is what the backup files are for!!!

I'm thinking it is actually the Waveform app that is somehow corrupted or "holding" on to some corrupted start-up process or file. Should I fully uninstall the app and all artifacts? Of coarse I would "backup" my Projects directory (to an external HD). Then re-install Waveform, my plugins, and load the project again (from one of the .waveformbackup files)? I'll wait to see if someone can help with an actual recovery, before doing the uninstall. Like I said in my OP - I am trying to avoid just clicking and experimenting, and lose the chance to do an actual proper restore (using whatever instructions "tech support" should be providing).

The only reason why I am using Waveform was to just try a different DAW for awhile. It sure is "different" (not in a great way). After this, I will be going back to my prior DAW - or try another well known and widely used DAW (I kind of want to try FL Studios).

This is insane.

[jabe]

Okay, I wasn't even aware of the automatic backups, or I forgot. I wasn't suggesting a full hard drive backup, just a copy of the project folder. I know in the past that .tracktionedit files have become corrupted, due, I assume to some sort of error when the file was being rewritten. I did, some years ago, wonder about writing two versions of that file each time it needed rewriting, which would have greatly reduced the chance of being left without an uncorrupted copy.

I'll see if I can find some time this over the next few days to try some experiments and see if I can discover anything worth sharing.

[nowgad]

It's not TW's fault that your power went out and TW malfunctioned. And with modern ssds, a system failure can occur at any time and data is lost, despite assurances of large temporary resources of use, anything can happen, so you need a configured backup

[gguevara1]

It's not TW's fault that your power went out and TW malfunctioned. And with modern ssds, a system failure can occur at any time and data is lost

Yes I am aware of this. I am obviously not "blaming" TW for my power loss (I'm not that closed minded). But I am Blaming them for absolutely providing no support. Nothing, zero, zilch, nada. And that is 1000% definitely their fault. There is no excuse for this. Period.

And yes - data loss can happen at any unforeseen moment. But in this case - the data is not lost. All the raw .wav files are there. And more importantly, all the Waveform backup files it previously generated are there as well. It would be an extreme coincidence for every single one of those Waveform backup files to now be "corrupted" all at once (especially since some were created months ago). And that too is 1000% TW fault too - because they are not providing any support (for what might actually be a simple solution they know about). If your "data loss" excuse were true, then why can I still open any other project from the recent past. I have worked on at least 20 other songs/projects in the past, and all of them are opening and playing with absolutely no issue. I even tested one of those old projects by "restoring" a second version of it using it's Waveform backup file (automatically created by Waveform) - with no problem at all.

Anyways...., thanks.

[gguevara1]

Okay, I wasn't even aware of the automatic backups, or I forgot...

...I'll see if I can find some time this over the next few days to try some experiments and see if I can discover anything worth sharing.

Thanks for the reply. I did open the .tracktionedit file in Notepad++ to see the contents. It is an XML file, which I am somewhat familiar with. But with out a scheme definition, it is almost impossible to understand the sections and tags. Anyways..., I compared it to one of my other project's .tracktionedit file. I can see there are many sections missing and the size/content is much less in this corrupted version, than the old one.

However, I though the contents inside the .tracktionedit file was embedded into the Waveform backup files. In this way, when Waveform restoration unpack the backup - it uses the embedded "edit" code lines to reconstruct the project from the last backed up save/edit?

Thanks for the help so far.

[jabe]

Okay, I wasn't even aware of the automatic backups, or I forgot...

...I'll see if I can find some time this over the next few days to try some experiments and see if I can discover anything worth sharing.

Thanks for the reply. I did open the .tracktionedit file in Notepad++ to see the contents. It is an XML file, which I am somewhat familiar with. But with out a scheme definition, it is almost impossible to understand the sections and tags. Anyways..., I compared it to one of my other project's .tracktionedit file. I can see there are many sections missing and the size/content is much less in this corrupted version, than the old one.

However, I though the contents inside the .tracktionedit file was embedded into the Waveform backup files. In this way, when Waveform restoration unpack the backup - it uses the embedded "edit" code lines to reconstruct the project from the last backed up save/edit?

Thanks for the help so far.

I've had moderate past success just balancing existing tags in a .tracktionedit file that has been corrupted, but it has nearly always meant that at least some tracks have got lost. If the restore option rebuilds the .tracktionedit file, that's definitely interesting. I've opened a .waveformbackup file in Notepad but it's a binary format with only a few recognisable names and is certainly not editable. When I've made several changes (I'm doing it in WF11) I'll make a copy of the Backups folder and try restoring back to various points, keeping your issue in mind,

[fde101]

I did, some years ago, wonder about writing two versions of that file each time it needed rewriting, which would have greatly reduced the chance of being left without an uncorrupted copy.

The "normal" way to handle this correctly is to write out the new version of the file under a temporary filename, make sure it is complete and good, then delete the original and rename the new one to the old name.

If the temporary filename just uses a different extension or something, then even if power is lost in between the delete and the rename, the software should still be able to identify the file and complete the process when you try to open it:

1. Only "normal" name exists (no temp file): just open the file]
2. Both "normal" and "temp" names exist: the "old" file should still be good, but the validity of the "temp" file may not be possible to determine, so delete the temp file and open the "normal" one (the "save" process did not complete)
3. Only the "temp" name exists: assume that the save of the temp file completed and the delete occurred of the old file before there was a failure; the "temp" file should be good, so rename it to the "normal" name and open it.

[lmv]

For anyone who plans to continue using Waveform here is what to do when you get the dreaded "temporary" dialog: immediately create your own backup of the original Edit. After that has been done, choose the temporary version. If the temporary version is borked, close Waveform and overwrite the Edit with your backup.

2- How would a power loss even corrupt these backup files in the first place? These files have already been generated, saved, and timestamped by Waveform. These files are just sitting there, archived and unused in a backup folder (until they are needed for "Restoration"). How and why would an instant power-loss cause these files to be corrupted?
This is insane.

I almost created a new topic yesterday, before I ever knew this thread was going on. Now I see I don't need a new topic, I can just comment here.

I still haven't had any project corruption, but on two occasions Waveform completely locked up my computer and forced me to hard reset, and upon restart it demanded registration. But I am registered! Oh wait, the GUI colors are enough to tell me that my configuration was corrupted. All my options have been reset. Waveform had complete memory loss. After 25 years of computer use, I've learned to make backups where most people won't, and yes, I had a backup of my entire configuration and project files. And I had to use it, and it happened twice in about 10 days. Something is definitely wrong about this. Why was the configuration touched at all? I was not tweaking any options. I was just playing and listening to the early draft of a track.

This is bad design. I know of another application (completely unrelated) that does require certain changes to be made often. For example, there are components that need to be created by the user, and you will very likely want to assign a key shortcut to a new component because when you create a component you will probably use it often. Well, after years of use it's very clear that the shortcuts are only saved when the application is closed cleanly. Never before. Which is so stupid. I̶f̶ ̶ When the application crashes, 100% sure, any changes made during that session will be lost. I suspect Waveform is doing something similar here.

Whatever it is, I hope they change it, and my advice to everyone here is obvious: make backups frequently. How frequently? As frequently as your patience is willing to withstand. The thing cannot be trusted. It is what it is.

Another idea is to disable all options in Settings -> General -> Saving. I did that yesterday and will see if that makes things better.

Another change I would like to see is for everything to stop when the track finishes playing. When my computer locked up, Waveform was playing a track. It kept on playing, I could hear it, but everything became unresponsive. I couldn't even switch to another tty (tty is a Linux thing). I momentarily hoped to regain control after the track was over, but then I remembered that playback goes on forever. Maybe it would be good to change that.