Waveform 11 Pro Support?!?!?!?

[lmv]

(I kind of want to try FL Studios).

I did years ago and I was impressed by the overall quality, it is a very powerful DAW. Excellent native plugins too. Second to none. And it was rock stable on Linux/Wine. Three big problems though:

1. I really don't like its workflow. It is very obviously made for repetitive music, where you create short clips and reuse them over and over. The concept of one long clip per instrument is almost non-existent. It can be done, but it's awkward. It's not designed for that.

2. Managing plugins with it is a nightmare. Rescanning takes a long time and you will find yourself rescanning your entire colllection over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... unless you never add any new plugins. You can't remove all directories from the scanning and scan one directory with a new plugin like I always do in Waveform. If you do that, FL Studio will find the new one and forget all the others. If you add a new directory and keep the old ones, the old ones will be rescanned all over again. Dumb like a box of rocks.

3. It's very expensive.

[gguevara1]

I did years ago and I was impressed by the overall quality, it is a very powerful DAW. Excellent native plugins too. Second to none. And it was rock stable on Linux/Wine. Three big problems though:

Hi,

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I'll keep that in mind. I do both the repetitive type genres, and the traditional long takes/sections type of genres. Maybe I'll just go back to the tried-and-tested Logic (boring but works solid). Or back to my old original 90's roots - Cubase (damn I'm going way back).

Thanks

[lmv]

The tool is supposed to be boring. The work isn't, but the tool is.

[gguevara1]

The "normal" way to handle this correctly is to write out the new version of the file under a temporary filename, make sure it is complete and good, then delete the original and rename the new one to the old name.

If the temporary filename just uses a different extension or something, then even if power is lost in between the delete and the rename, the software should still be able to identify the file and complete the process when you try to open it:

1. Only "normal" name exists (no temp file): just open the file]
2. Both "normal" and "temp" names exist: the "old" file should still be good, but the validity of the "temp" file may not be possible to determine, so delete the temp file and open the "normal" one (the "save" process did not complete)
3. Only the "temp" name exists: assume that the save of the temp file completed and the delete occurred of the old file before there was a failure; the "temp" file should be good, so rename it to the "normal" name and open it.

Hello,

Unfortunately I do not see any temp files in the project folder. Are these temp files saved somewhere else in the drive?

Anyways...., please see a screenshot of my project folder (with notes). I also included the screenshots I sent Tracktion when I submitted a "support request" through there site (ridiculous).

Thanks in advance.

[fde101]

(I kind of want to try FL Studios).

I did years ago and I was impressed by the overall quality, it is a very powerful DAW. Excellent native plugins too. Second to none. And it was rock stable on Linux/Wine. Three big problems though:

FL Studio does have a lot going for it, including a fair number of integrated plugins which are indeed quite excellent.

1. I really don't like its workflow. It is very obviously made for repetitive music, where you create short clips and reuse them over and over. The concept of one long clip per instrument is almost non-existent. It can be done, but it's awkward. It's not designed for that.

The FL Studio workflow is indeed quite unique and one of its biggest draws for me - not that I do much of that kind of music, but studying the more unique ways that different tools approach the same problem is something I find interesting, and FL Studio is not just "yet another" DAW doing the same things as everyone else.

It is a great tool to have in your toolbox for times when its plugins (its synths in particular) are helpful or when a project is well-fit to the workflow it does provide.

2. Managing plugins with it is a nightmare. Rescanning takes a long time and you will find yourself rescanning your entire colllection over and over

Agreed - its plugin scanning is VERY slow.

3. It's very expensive.

I don't agree here. Even to get the top package they offer it is $499 *once* (US pricing) and all version upgrades are included for the life of the product (and user).

For comparison:

• Bitwig Studio is $399 then after a year you pay annually to keep up with current versions (it is perpetual but you pay for all upgrades released within a year at a time)
• Digital Producer is $499 then you pay $195 for a major version upgrade from the previous version (for each major version upgrade)
• Reason is $499 then another $199 per major version upgrade
• Cubase Pro is $579.99 and if you want the upgraded versions when they come out then it is a few hundred dollars more each time.
• Ableton Live 11 Suite is $749 and if you want the upgraded versions when they come out then it is similarly a few hundred dollars more each time.

[fde101]

Unfortunately I do not see any temp files in the project folder. Are these temp files saved somewhere else in the drive?

I'm not saying that this is what is actually happening. I was responding to a comment in which a method was being suggested for avoiding the problems that are currently happening, and providing a more fleshed-out method of actually preventing those problems (the corruption of the files).

In other words, a method that potentially *could* be used to fix some of the issues that users are having.

[lmv]

For comparison:

• Bitwig Studio is $399 then after a year you pay annually to keep up with current versions (it is perpetual but you pay for all upgrades released within a year at a time)
• Digital Producer is $499 then you pay $195 for a major version upgrade from the previous version (for each major version upgrade)
• Reason is $499 then another $199 per major version upgrade
• Cubase Pro is $579.99 and if you want the upgraded versions when they come out then it is a few hundred dollars more each time.
• Ableton Live 11 Suite is $749 and if you want the upgraded versions when they come out then it is similarly a few hundred dollars more each time.

They are all expensive. Why compare FLS with the pricey ones and not with the cheaper ones? You behave like a defense attorney.

Two can play at that game. For comparison:

• My rent is $250 a month (not in the US) and it's been increasingly difficult to keep up with that since the beginning of the pandemic. I may go homeless at any time. I still don't have enough to pay for next month.
• I (and my two cats) need at least $150 to eat for a month. I can't afford a vet (minimum $30) in an emergency.
• Trying to make music with depression is very hard, but it's my only choice of entertainment. I can't afford to go anywhere. I haven't had a "weekend" in six years.
• I haven't bought any new clothes in six years either so I don't even know how much that costs right now. I obviously don't need much of it. I can't go out.
• I expect a client to pay me this week so I can eat and pay utilities. Apart from that, I now have exactly $0 at home and $3 in my bank account to cover its monthly maintenance fee.
  
  This is called perspective. $499 is a lot of money to me. Maybe the world is bigger than you think.

[fde101]

They are all expensive. Why compare FLS with the pricey ones and not with the cheaper ones?

Mostly because it is more comparable to the more "expensive" ones in terms of what comes bundled with it. Most of the cheaper DAWS are just that - cheaper - and that includes Waveform. While Cubase has the higher price tag of the bunch, it also has a massive amount of functionality integrated or bundled with the product which is either an optional add-on (typically at additional cost) or not possible at all in any reasonable manner in [name another DAW here]. If you need enough of those features you will wind up paying as much or more to get them added onto [DAW of your choice] if that is even possible, compared to just using Cubase in the first place. An example is proper support for surround sound mixing, which is provided by practically NONE of the "cheaper" DAWs (Logic Pro being the closest exception).

I used the high-end package of FL Studio as an example (the Producer edition includes all of the features of the high-end package except for some of the plugins; it comes in at $299 instead of $499).

Waveform comes with a more limited set of plugins than what is included with even the $299 version of FL Studio, so let's compare these.

With FL Studio Producer Edition, you pay $299 one time, then all new versions of the Producer Edition can simply be downloaded and used for life.

With Waveform, you pay $149 for Waveform Pro, then upgrades are generally $99 each right now. After two major version upgrades you will have paid $347, or $48 more than you will have paid for the "expensive" FL Studio.

This is not to say there is not value in Waveform - I think if some of the crashes and other bugs were cleaned up it would still be one of my favorite DAWs to work with in many projects - nor am I trying to say that FL Studio is somehow the "ultimate" DAW - it is limited to 125 mixer channels, has no surround sound support, does not even support recording in mono (it treats *everything* as Stereo), ... - each DAW has its pros and cons, but consider that with each major version of Waveform the total cost over the life of the product goes up (as is true with most commercial DAWs) but with FL Studio it effectively goes down as you keep getting more and more features and don't pay anything additional.

This is called perspective. $499 is a lot of money to me. Maybe the world is bigger than you think.

Not arguing that. Not everyone needs all of the features, not everyone needs the top version of something, not everyone needs a DAW at all. At the same time, I don't believe it is appropriate to call FL Studio expensive simply because it has a high price tag - there is a difference. Having a high price tag means you pay more for it. Being expensive means the cost is too high relative to the value of the product, and I don't believe that is true here. The price seems appropriate to me given the value the product offers. The people developing it need to eat too, and they are not getting additional income from existing users when they release new versions...

[gguevara1]

I'm not saying that this is what is actually happening. I was responding to a comment in which a method was being suggested for avoiding the problems that are currently happening....

Hello,

Thank for the reply.

So I ended up making a backup of my Project directory (just in case) - and then Uninstalled Waveform. I even used BCUninstaller to do a deep uninstall, which uninstalls other system related files (ex. registry and sys files). My thought was that if there was some type of corrupted startup files or other files, BCUninstaller would properly remove them.

Anyways... I rebooted, proceeded to re-install Waveform and the add-ons (v11 Pro for Windows). Let it scan my plugins (which took forever), and completed the initial setup. Which is a typical setup with nothing "other-worldly" (I have a Ryzen 7 machine with more than enough fast memory - 32GB). Then I tried "restoring" the Waveformbackup files - and still no good. I went as far back as 8 different versions of the backup files - nada (and still no damn support from Tracktion).

However, when I opened a few of my other projects (that were not corrupted and opening fine), Waveform asked me the dreadful "Do you want to open the most current Temp edit version, or the original" question prompt. Before the uninstall, it never asked me this for these other projects. So I did not click anything yet, and IMMEDIATELY tried searching all my drives for this supposed "temp edit version." The search found nothing related to a "temp edit file" for these other projects. I wanted to find the directory just to see if I could find which folder these "temp edits" reside in. Since I couldn't find these "temp edits" - I went back to the question prompt, and made sure to click "Open the original edit." The projects opened normally. My word of warning - Never Choose The TEMP EDIT VERSION (Eff that).

So my questions are as follows:

1- When you make the choice between temp edit or original edit - does the unchosen version get permanently deleted once the project opens?

2- Obviously Waveform is asking which version..., because somewhere it is finding/locating a "temp" file somewhere - so where in the hell exactly are these temp edit versions stored/located?

3- Why would my Waveform ask for which versions to open, since none of my other projects were open or loaded at the time of my power loss (it makes no sense)???

In the end, I am just going to import all the original .wav files back to a "second" version of this project. Because now I'm concerned if the original imported .wav tracks are somehow corrupted. I want to see if they even playback correctly.

Lastly - I'm done with Waveform. Even though I didn't hate it, or love it - I am completely disappointed in their total lack of support. Any product that does not offer any support is dead to me. Also - I did not mean or want for this thread to turn into a debate of which DAW is better, worth the value/expense, or which is "socioeconomically" acceptable. I was just really trying to finds some direction, advice, or legitimate answers/solution. But I still want to thank everyone for their attempts to help.

Lastly - screw you Waveform...., for treating your customers like they mean nothing. I see there are some folks who actually enjoy Waveform and are loyal. Yet you spit on their faces by not providing any help to them. But you're fast to take their money. Eff you.

Thank you all (I'll make sure to post any update if things change).